Glucose loading cures everything?
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@Mr-X said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
its absolutely insane that some here take up to 320grams of dextrose per day. And everybody is asking what can I do for my blood sugar crashes
is here somebody who did this protocol for several months and is now completely off glucose? I think after months of glucose loading you will go into hypoglycemic hell and youre in a worser state than before the protocol.I think most of us in this thread doing the protocol haven't completed it yet. 3.5 months seems to be the longest anyone has been on glucose. I have months to go, and have had many symptoms come and go. The best indicator for me is my temperature. It's doing well, even first thing in the morning, before food. My husband's temperature has responded the same. If, as Dr. Broda Barnes discovered, temperature indicates thyroid health, we are doing great. How will we do when we stop glucose loading? I'll find out in a few months.
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@Mr-X said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
its absolutely insane that some here take up to 320grams of dextrose per day. And everybody is asking what can I do for my blood sugar crashes
is here somebody who did this protocol for several months and is now completely off glucose? I think after months of glucose loading you will go into hypoglycemic hell and youre in a worser state than before the protocol.I'm one of the people who have blood sugar crashes, and I only take 144 grams a day. I've had more crashed while taking high doses at a time, rather than 1 tbsp every hour. Going back to 1 tbsp hasn't fully solved it yet though. And I think that's one of the tricky things about glucose, that sometimes and in some forms it lowers BG, but it can also increase BG. People react differently too.
I used a continuous glucose monitor for two weeks, and I would say I am over average good at making sense of patterns, but I was never able to make sense of the patterns of how I was responding to taking glucose, or of blood sugar levels. It's not the first protocol that's tricky to navigate though, so I'm not too worried about it. It doesn't make me think the protocol isn't working.
You asked a while back about outlining symptoms etc, and I didn't have the spoons to respond. I started at the beginning of July, so nearly at 3,5 months. My best metaphor for what is going on is that for years it's felt like I'm in the fight scene in an action movie, only my car won't start. The "bad guys" (fuel demands of all kinds, normal day to day stuff, but also reactivation of viruses etc) is "coming", and my body has not been able to fight any of it off. It's been a constant fight I have not been winning.
Now I'm still in the fight scene, so it's very intense at times, but the car is working. I've still got symptoms, but the body appears to successfully fight pathogens. However I think the glucose might fuel viruses etc as well, so I've got a lot of stuff reactivating.
I have probably had low grade infection many places in the body for years, including my brain. With no immune reaction pathogens probably just bob around and make a little mess all the time. It hasn't had much to fight, it's just taken over. Now the immune system is fighting back, and with more glucose the viruses also have more energy. For example:
First (two months ago) shingles tried to break out in the nerve pathway it has infected before, the pathways that goes to the thumb - I had flu like symptoms for 36 hours, but I didn't have a rash, and then some pain for a few days after. Then a couple of weeks ago I had a similar pain in my head and rash under my eye appeared, which the body fought off quickly. The rash disappeared, but then the pain was back in my thumb, and then the rash reappeared under my eye. Now it's gone down again, but I still have some pain. However none of it has been as painful as when the virus broke out properly, not the rash and not the nerve pain.
The body is still working on fighting off the infection, and I think that also means it is healing stuff in the brain that it hasn't been able to heal before.
I think the immune responses are a very, very good sign, and that it can be considered a win in terms of the the Itaconate shunt hypothesis for ME/CFS (separate from my hypothesis for why glucose may work).
I use other markers to see if it's getting better overall. Many of them are still not super consistent, so I don't feel 100% certain it's working, and I'm very unsure how much better it can make me. But there are enough good signs. Some of the "small" good signs are that my digestion is working consistently better, even with my sleep being very disrupted. Despite being under the weather for two months now my cycle is overall healthier.
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@gentlepotato so would you say you feel better. Is libido better. Is sleeping better. Is brain fog better. Thank you for your helpful account.
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@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@Mr-X said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
its absolutely insane that some here take up to 320grams of dextrose per day. And everybody is asking what can I do for my blood sugar crashes
is here somebody who did this protocol for several months and is now completely off glucose? I think after months of glucose loading you will go into hypoglycemic hell and youre in a worser state than before the protocol.I'm one of the people who have blood sugar crashes, and I only take 144 grams a day. I've had more crashed while taking high doses at a time, rather than 1 tbsp every hour. Going back to 1 tbsp hasn't fully solved it yet though. And I think that's one of the tricky things about glucose, that sometimes and in some forms it lowers BG, but it can also increase BG. People react differently too.
I used a continuous glucose monitor for two weeks, and I would say I am over average good at making sense of patterns, but I was never able to make sense of the patterns of how I was responding to taking glucose, or of blood sugar levels. It's not the first protocol that's tricky to navigate though, so I'm not too worried about it. It doesn't make me think the protocol isn't working.
You asked a while back about outlining symptoms etc, and I didn't have the spoons to respond. I started at the beginning of July, so nearly at 3,5 months. My best metaphor for what is going on is that for years it's felt like I'm in the fight scene in an action movie, only my car won't start. The "bad guys" (fuel demands of all kinds, normal day to day stuff, but also reactivation of viruses etc) is "coming", and my body has not been able to fight any of it off. It's been a constant fight I have not been winning.
Now I'm still in the fight scene, so it's very intense at times, but the car is working. I've still got symptoms, but the body appears to successfully fight pathogens. However I think the glucose might fuel viruses etc as well, so I've got a lot of stuff reactivating.
I have probably had low grade infection many places in the body for years, including my brain. With no immune reaction pathogens probably just bob around and make a little mess all the time. It hasn't had much to fight, it's just taken over. Now the immune system is fighting back, and with more glucose the viruses also have more energy. For example:
First (two months ago) shingles tried to break out in the nerve pathway it has infected before, the pathways that goes to the thumb - I had flu like symptoms for 36 hours, but I didn't have a rash, and then some pain for a few days after. Then a couple of weeks ago I had a similar pain in my head and rash under my eye appeared, which the body fought off quickly. The rash disappeared, but then the pain was back in my thumb, and then the rash reappeared under my eye. Now it's gone down again, but I still have some pain. However none of it has been as painful as when the virus broke out properly, not the rash and not the nerve pain.
The body is still working on fighting off the infection, and I think that also means it is healing stuff in the brain that it hasn't been able to heal before.
I think the immune responses are a very, very good sign, and that it can be considered a win in terms of the the Itaconate shunt hypothesis for ME/CFS (separate from my hypothesis for why glucose may work).
I use other markers to see if it's getting better overall. Many of them are still not super consistent, so I don't feel 100% certain it's working, and I'm very unsure how much better it can make me. But there are enough good signs. Some of the "small" good signs are that my digestion is working consistently better, even with my sleep being very disrupted. Despite being under the weather for two months now my cycle is overall healthier.
This sounds so similar to my own experience with glucose. I remember that we both had reactivation of shingles around the same time, and both began taking glucose 3.5 months ago.
How are your temperatures and pulse? Mine are still doing well, consistently, but I've hit another rough patch. I sometimes wonder if I may have low grade fever. My morning temp seems high lately (98.9). I had constant "fever" and night sweats in my early 30's when I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, but after working with a homeopath and getting H202 IV's the fever and night sweats ended. Maybe I'm retracing those symptoms now. Hopefully this too shall pass, like the others.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@gentlepotato so would you say you feel better. Is libido better. Is sleeping better. Is brain fog better. Thank you for your helpful account.
I would say it's intense in a different, hopefully more healing way than before.
I've eaten PM for 3 1/2 years and I would say it's helped a lot of things. All my markers (apart from the fatigue itself) were already so much better; it's night and day. Digestion is the only marker that wasn't consistently better already, and that got a lot better in July, and has stayed better.
I did see some more healing from glucose in July, even more positive changes in circadian rhythm, sleep, brain fog, and that's not as prominent anymore, but I chalk it down to having immun responses nearly back to back for two months. I'm still seeing benefits, and I'm very happy with the results everything considered.
@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
This sounds so similar to my own experience with glucose. I remember that we both had reactivation of shingles around the same time, and both began taking glucose 3.5 months ago.
How are your temperatures and pulse? Mine are still doing well, consistently, but I've hit another rough patch. I sometimes wonder if I may have low grade fever. My morning temp seems high lately (98.9). I had constant "fever" and night sweats in my early 30's when I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, but after working with a homeopath and getting H202 IV's the fever and night sweats ended. Maybe I'm retracing those symptoms now. Hopefully this too shall pass, like the others.
Is your pulse and temperature doing well even when you're in a rough patch? My pulse has mostly been very stable and good since starting PM. Temperature also got better with, but has continued to be a little low, and it still is.
I stopped having fevers at some point after my ME got triggered, but have had fever/flu like symptoms many times. People can go both ways, but it's not uncommon to have a much lower temperature with ME. (I know of someone who had sepsis without breaking a fever, and likely just survived because they knew to go to the hospital based on other symptoms). I've tended towards too cold, but I'm very close to "normal" now. I'm sort of hoping for a real fever at some point, but if a slower immune response is what my body prefers I trust it knows best.
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@gentlepotato Yes, temp, pulse, oxygen saturation, BP have all improved on glucose. I think for some of us healing just isn't going to feel great.
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@gentlepotato Yes, temp, pulse, oxygen saturation, BP have all improved on glucose. I think for some of us healing just isn't going to feel great.
Definitely, not necessarily something that feels great, and the tricky thing really is to decipher what is just a part of healing and what are signals from the body that we need to tweak something. We might not even find the answers, but maybe sharing along the way at least will make it easier for those who try this after us.
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@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@gentlepotato Yes, temp, pulse, oxygen saturation, BP have all improved on glucose. I think for some of us healing just isn't going to feel great.
Definitely, not necessarily something that feels great, and the tricky thing really is to decipher what is just a part of healing and what are signals from the body that we need to tweak something. We might not even find the answers, but maybe sharing along the way at least will make it easier for those who try this after us.
Case in point. One of my old symptoms is hemorrhaging. I could bleed for months, then do some "tweaking" and it would stop. I hadn't bled in over a year. But then last week, the floodgates opened. It was worse than ever. I told my nurse daughter, and her answer, as always, was for me to go see a doctor. But just as suddenly as it started, it stopped...not a drop. All of my retracing on glucose has been like this. It comes on suddenly and doesn't last long. One interesting observation about this is I would aways feel better while having the bleeding episodes. It made me wonder if our intelligent bodies know things, like for instance that I may have too much stored iron, and it finds a way to deal with it.
So many things to discover and contemplate on this healing journey.
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Just an update on my experience using glucose. In the last few days I have upped my intake to 360 g spread throughout the day and the two main things I have noticed is that my adrenaline has gone down, but My fuzzy headaches have Increased. I think this might just be my body adjusting to the change. It would make sense that if my adrenaline was going down, I may have less energy in the interim, as actually less sugar is available to my brain.i.e Less sugar being liberated by the adrenaline.
Last night as an experiment, I drank 120 g of dextrose in milk, And I had amazing dreams all night. When I woke I normally have palpitations, these weren’t there. I wonder if the milk helped buff the glucose to last longer throughout the night? Also, I should mention at the same time I used a bit of Progest-e Which helps lower the insulin reaction to glucose. (Ref michael platt, adrenaline dominance)
I think, if you spend a lot of the day like I do running on stress hormones, it can feel like you take Step backwards when you run on glucose metabolism without stress hormones, But I hope this will come good as my body re learns How to use glucose properly.
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@josh great to hear and thank you for continuing to comment on your journey. It helps me and I'm sure all of us.
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What is PM and ME dieting? Thanks
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
What is PM and ME dieting? Thanks
I think you're referring to what I wrote? PM is pro metabolic, and ME is my diagnosis, often called ME/CFS internationally, but it's often just called ME in my country so I forgot to add the /CFS.
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@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@Ecstatic_Hamster said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
What is PM and ME dieting? Thanks
I think you're referring to what I wrote? PM is pro metabolic, and ME is my diagnosis, often called ME/CFS internationally, but it's often just called ME in my country so I forgot to add the /CFS.
Thank you.
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im thinking of trying this glucose loading thing but just a pre and intra and post workout shake for weightlifting / sprinting / etc workouts . some days I eat like 200g of honey in one sitting, it's like I can't get enough. I wonder if pure glucose will be better?
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what is a good source for high quality glucose powder?
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@sneedful said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
im thinking of trying this glucose loading thing but just a pre and intra and post workout shake for weightlifting / sprinting / etc workouts . some days I eat like 200g of honey in one sitting, it's like I can't get enough. I wonder if pure glucose will be better?
Yes, pure glucose is very therapeutic.
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@sneedful said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
what is a good source for high quality glucose powder?
I buy it (dextrose) in bulk from Amazon, Earthborn Elements. Now brand is also good.
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In the meantime I've had an H202 i.v. (c. 0.03%) which made me have a much increased craving for dextrose and carbs from c. 1/2h into it until half a day later.
I could get to sleep (calm and deep) only after I had finally filled up with enough carbs and dextrose.
Still wondering whether that observed raise in the metabolic rate by H202 is partly due to O2 delivery or due signalling effects of H202 itself and, thereof, perhaps even mainly a rise in thyroid hormone availability.Another thing:
It would be great to read the thoughts or experiences by those with digestive issues on the effect of dextrose dissolved with ground psyllium seeds (not husks).
Will the dextrose reach places further down the digestive system and aid and relieve the energetic needs of those tissues?Many will surely remember haidut's posts on high dose B3 etc. on healing of chronic GI conditions like Crohn's but IMO in practical reality such promises are bull. Especially so, I reckon, when those tissues don't have any glucose to use with it but only the typical abundance of GI short-chain fatty acids.
So far I've been continueing with 70grs every four hours or c. 35grs every two hours throughout the day. I.e. about 350grs daily.
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@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
In the meantime I've had an H202 i.v. (c. 0.03%) which made me have a much increased craving for dextrose and carbs from c. 1/2h into it until half a day later.
I could get to sleep (calm and deep) only after I had finally filled up with enough carbs and dextrose.
Still wondering whether that observed raise in the metabolic rate by H202 is partly due to O2 delivery or due signalling effects of H202 itself and, thereof, perhaps even mainly a rise in thyroid hormone availability.Another thing:
It would be great to read the thoughts or experiences by those with digestive issues on the effect of dextrose dissolved with ground psyllium seeds (not husks).
Will the dextrose reach places further down the digestive system and aid and relieve the energetic needs of those tissues?Many will surely remember haidut's posts on high dose B3 etc. on healing of chronic GI conditions like Crohn's but IMO in practical reality such promises are bull. Especially so, I reckon, when those tissues don't have any glucose to use with it but only the typical abundance of GI short-chain fatty acids.
So far I've been continueing with 70grs every four hours or c. 35grs every two hours throughout the day. I.e. about 350grs daily.
I'm glad you brought this up. I seem to tolerate the glucose better by adding a small amount of acacia fiber and/or modified citrus pectin. I also add a bit of bamboo silica. And these are also highly recommended for gut healing. I'm at about 30 Tbsps daily and going to hold there for a while.
I had an H202 IV years ago and felt terrible for a while after. Besides the herx effect, H202 damages tissues, so my theory is it will take MORE glucose to help heal the epithelium. I like to brush teeth with H202 and sodium bicarb, but if I do it often, my gums get sore.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0952060091900558 -
@S-Holmes said:
I had an H202 IV years ago and felt terrible for a while after. Besides the herx effect, H202 damages tissues, so my theory is it will take MORE glucose to help heal the epithelium. I like to brush teeth with H202 and sodium bicarb, but if I do it often, my gums get sore.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0952060091900558That's a wrong conclusion about H202 you are making there, I think. I don't believe there is any directly damaging effect from its i.v. use at sensible concentrations.
What they used in that study you linked was 0.24% H202 - which is at the very maximum or even beyond of what would be used as an i.v. Also, there were no significant changes wrt terbutaline at a concentration of 0.024% H202. Significant changes started at 0.07% H202.
Additionally, all those results were from 20minutes of direct contact at these concentrations, whereas used as an i.v. even the 0.03-0.15% H202 would immediately dissolve into the blood stream and a gradiently much greater volume, hence even lower effective concentrations.@S-Holmes said:
I seem to tolerate the glucose better by adding a small amount of acacia fiber and/or modified citrus pectin. I also add a bit of bamboo silica.
Interesting! Have you noticed any good effects yet further down the GI system?
As for mere stomach tolerability or nausea I've recently found out that I can mix a nearly infinite amount of dextrose with some warm water into unsweetened cornflakes. They suck it all up and I can really easily shovel in a full 70-100 grs of dextrose in one very small serving. And the same again 10mins later. And again and again if I wanted to. Seemed a little uncanny to me, tbh. Totally different reactions than with saccharose, 100grs of which in a small bowl of cornflakes would have made me nauseaous right away.