Glucose loading cures everything?
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It bypasses the process needed to break food down into glucose, gluconeogenesis is the term I believe.
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Stephens call his glucose ahah moment an inspiration from God.
If he were more honest about it, he would reference Ray Peat as well as Prof. Gershom Zajicek ( who talked about using glucose to restore the beta cells of the pancreas to restore the production of insulin).
But he may just be simply unaware others have thought of this idea. Stephens comes from a neuropsychological background, which is not exactly blessed with sound science given the scores of patients they have sent to hopelessness and despair and suicide.
But he was astute enough to notice how many patients with concussive injuries could benefit from glucose loading to overcome brain injuries.
But he attributes all of the brain's problems with lack of sugar to physical injuries, as that is the limit or scope of his clinical practice being a neuropsychologist. But he fails to consider that there has been for a long time a concerted effort by the establishment to blame all of society's health problems on sugar. Seconded by armchair YouTube experts that amplify this line. So a lot more damage on our brains has been done by conditioning us to hate sugar.
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
I haven't quite figured out how or why the brain downregulates sugar usage following every stress (any kind of stress). Stress seems to trigger lipolysis (vs glycolysis) and the damage is CUMULATIVE. Is this why stress kills? I've ordered his latest book. Hopefully he addresses this in depth.
I don't agree with framing low sugar usage by the brain to be caused by the brain downregulating sugar usage. The brain can keep sending signals for sugar to be delivered to it by blood, as well as oxygen, but it can only direct but the cardiovascular system is the one that fulfills that directive, subject to its state of health. If the tissues cannot absorb glucose because say potassium is deficient, there is nothing the brain can do. Likewise with oxygen, if CO2 is deficient in blood, hemoglobin will not release oxygen to the brain cells.
What specific stress are you referring to that triggers lipolysis? That presupposes stress is needed to trigger lipolysis. But what if lipolysis is just a regular process to release fats from fat stores to be used by fatty-acid oxidation as part of the body's ability to use different energy pathways (I.e. sugar oxidation and fat oxidation) to optimize energy production and conserve sugar for use by the brain?
In fact, one thing insulin does is to inhibit lipolysis. Which means that when blood sugar levels are stable and normal, and insulin is not produced, lipolysis goes on as a normal process in the body.
And this may be the reason why people with good and stable blood sugar levels do not get overweight nor obese, as they are constantly using up their fat stores for energy, and their fat stores do not accumulate.
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Gluconeogenesis isn't used in the digestive process.
Complex sugars are broken down to simple sugars down to becoming glucose, which is absorbed by the small intestine, and assimilated into blood as blood sugar.
Gluconeogenesis is when protein is broken down into glucogenic amino acids, which are further broken down to be used to make glucose. I believe the liver, and to some extent, the kidneys, does this.
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Just visited the RPF
So bizarre
The questions in this thread have again mostly been discussed by Ray
If not directly
Meaning not told exactly “how to do it”
This is where we are to perceive think actFrom my personal experience
And I healed from extremely poor health to now the greatest health I’ve ever had
Sugar was absolutely foundational
A foundation is what we build uponBut
Im here to say
As I said over thereStress hormones desensitize the insulin receptor
From birth to now, most of us have had some sort of stress that is shaped our experience of our health
With chronic stress comes many things all of which desensitizes the insulin receptorWhen you reintroduce sugar your body is essentially already in an insulin resistant state
The stress hormones flooding your system overtime have desensitized the insulin receptor so insulin cannot drive glucose into the cell anymore….I point this out because the more I used this wonderful “nutrient”
The more I was able to handle it and really reap the benefits of using it not only in relatively large quantities- my ability to utilize it as a therapeutic tool only got better and better
But the beginning was rough
Really rough
Due to my stressed metabolic stateAnyway
Just stunned that Ray isn’t understood nor acknowledged on his own forum
I grieve that shitPlease listen to him here
He addresses a lot iircA prophet
A genius
And a friend -
I was in awe having a scroll of it this morning. Their power struggles and appeals to spertise occasionally gets a bit shakespearian. Someone could probably write an entertaining novel about RPF.
Aside from that Ms Peatful. I know the feelings. Beside and probably not distinct from the science.
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All a bit strange hey Mr Yerrag. I find myself affirm to your observation.
Meanwhile, I get the feeling there's something in this. I'll have to read around quite a lot, enjoy surrounding conversation and sleep well I guess. All I can do right now is speculate. That the fructose is unwelcome to him for myocardial reasons and the glucose still benefits for structural and therefore metabolic reasons. Probably not without personal consequence. But at least it begs some questions.
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@Peatful Could you expound on "rough"? I had a very strange burning pain from my neck to the bottom of my ribs yesterday (right side). I put an aspirin under my tongue and took a homeopathic remedy to treat stroke, just in case. It lasted about 15 minutes and then I was fine.
If not for Dr.Peat I wouldn't have given the sucrose protocol a second look. I think he saved my life, but I still have lingering issues, and weight gain which is difficult because I was very thin my entire life. So I'm willing to try anything to feel better. I've been on Nathan Hatch's protocol for a few months, and it was helpful but still didn't quite get me "there." (I still use some of the things he suggests.)
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@yerrag Right, I was referring to fuel being obtained from protein or fat. Simple sugars are absorbed in the stomach, not the intestines. That's what I meant by bypassing the digestive process.
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@Insomniac but here’s the kicker, my blood glucose levels are lower. Where I was spiking to 150 after a meal I’m now spiking to 125. Every time I check my blood glucose it’s 20-30 points lower than my typical readings without dextrose.
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@Peatful Could you expound on "rough"? I had a very strange burning pain from my neck to the bottom of my ribs yesterday (right side). I put an aspirin under my tongue and took a homeopathic remedy to treat stroke, just in case. It lasted about 15 minutes and then I was fine.
If not for Dr.Peat I wouldn't have given the sucrose protocol a second look. I think he saved my life, but I still have lingering issues, and weight gain which is difficult because I was very thin my entire life. So I'm willing to try anything to feel better. I've been on Nathan Hatch's protocol for a few months, and it was helpful but still didn't quite get me "there." (I still use some of the things he suggests.)
Yes
I had odd symptoms
Troubling ones
But transientI had significant weight gain
But
That was not about the sugar or the foods
The weight gain reflected the damage already done in my bodyIt was so much fluid
And
As said above
With any history of restriction or stress
You will start with your cells unable to get the sugar in
But it gets better
Your body has to relearnMaybe this will help give you an idea?
Im around today
Jyst need to run nowThx
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@yerrag Well, the doctor admits that some of the protocol is based on theory...such as how quickly and preferentially the glucose appears to make it's way to the brain, within a couple of minutes! I believe that was the theory he said he would need spinal tap volunteers for. Who would sign up for that??? Theories, in my opinion, should be put to the test. He has been testing it out for a while now, with amazing successes. I'm just doing my part.
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@evan-hinkle said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@Insomniac but here’s the kicker, my blood glucose levels are lower. Where I was spiking to 150 after a meal I’m now spiking to 125. Every time I check my blood glucose it’s 20-30 points lower than my typical readings without dextrose.
THIS!!!
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I'd ask for your urinary volumes throughout the day but I'm not going to push my luck. Or be that weird.
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@Peatful Yes, very helpful, thank you.
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@Insomniac the protocol is to increase dextrose until symptoms abate and then stay there for a period of a few months. I’m not against trying a one time dose of that nature, but I’m working on a giant treehouse today so I won’t be able to try til later in the evening.
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@ThinPicking I haven’t tracked, but I’ll say this, I don’t urinate very frequently because I don’t drink a ton of fluids. Maybe three times a day, not particularly dark, nor clear. What’s the theory you’re thinking here?
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The volume, specific gravity and/or TDS would tell you a lot. But at the same time, your sensation of your own wellbeing is paramount here. If you're feeling good, let that be.
I like these kinds of dollar metrics for the buck accessibility. Refractometer, TDS meters, stethoscopes, sensitive scales, bioimpedance meters, HRV, BP, this kind of thing. No million buck labs filled with nerdoids.
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@evan-hinkle Can you share a photo here when it's finished?? Lol
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@evan-hinkle Can you share a photo here when it's finished?? Lol
...of the treehouse, I mean. Lol
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@S-Holmes hahahahaha, it actually took me a minute to realize that’s what you meant…
I just tried, but I don’t know how to post a picture. I clicked on the icon for the picture, but all I got was some pre-fab html.
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@evan-hinkle Not sure if this is the issue, but when I share a photo it appears as text until I select the "post" arrow.
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@S-Holmes ![alt text](image url)
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@S-Holmes I would have expected it to allow me to select a picture from the folder on my computer. I don’t have a picture posted on the web, so unfortunately I don’t have a url.
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@evan-hinkle Oh well, I'm sure it's an amazing treehouse.
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@Peatful Could you please explain how you incorporated high quantities of sucrose into your diet? Thanks
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@Peatful Could you expound on "rough"? I had a very strange burning pain from my neck to the bottom of my ribs yesterday (right side). I put an aspirin under my tongue and took a homeopathic remedy to treat stroke, just in case. It lasted about 15 minutes and then I was fine.
If not for Dr.Peat I wouldn't have given the sucrose protocol a second look. I think he saved my life, but I still have lingering issues, and weight gain which is difficult because I was very thin my entire life. So I'm willing to try anything to feel better. I've been on Nathan Hatch's protocol for a few months, and it was helpful but still didn't quite get me "there." (I still use some of the things he suggests.)
Apologies...I meant glucose protocol, not sucrose.
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@tubert said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@Peatful Could you please explain how you incorporated high quantities of sucrose into your diet? Thanks
Hey there, this is voice recognition.
I would love to help out
But context is so important around any health data in my opinionSo rather than me, spitting out a bunch of information
Do you wanna just tell me kind of where you’re at or what specifically are you looking to heal?Dietary history here is paramount as well as just where your health lands today
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@Peatful Could you expound on "rough"? I had a very strange burning pain from my neck to the bottom of my ribs yesterday (right side). I put an aspirin under my tongue and took a homeopathic remedy to treat stroke, just in case. It lasted about 15 minutes and then I was fine.
If not for Dr.Peat I wouldn't have given the sucrose protocol a second look. I think he saved my life, but I still have lingering issues, and weight gain which is difficult because I was very thin my entire life. So I'm willing to try anything to feel better. I've been on Nathan Hatch's protocol for a few months, and it was helpful but still didn't quite get me "there." (I still use some of the things he suggests.)
Apologies...I meant glucose protocol, not sucrose.
Hey
All sugars turn into glucose in our body
Lactose, dextrose, sucrose etcYes?
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@Peatful The gist of the protocol is to skip all of the various conversions and provide glucose directly to the brain.
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@Peatful The gist of the protocol is to skip all of the various conversions and provide glucose directly to the brain.
“Protocol”
Please noteThere is nothing new under the sun
Although I haven’t read nor watched this guy
This is just “marketing”The title of the thread is: Glucose loading cures everything?
All sugars turn into glucose
Nothing magical about dextrose as far as I understand Peat -
@S-Holmes I love that those little Smarties candies are made with 100% dextrose/glucose. 1 roll contains 6 or 7 grams of dextrose. Someone named them appropriately it seems. I bought some in bulk from Amazon. My little grandbabies are always getting bumps and bruises out here on our farm so Smarties (and Arnica montana) to the rescue!
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@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@S-Holmes I love that those little Smarties candies are made with 100% dextrose/glucose. 1 roll contains 6 or 7 grams of dextrose. Someone named them appropriately it seems. I bought some in bulk from Amazon. My little grandbabies are always getting bumps and bruises out here on our farm so Smarties (and Arnica montana) to the rescue!
This is great
Load up and enjoy
Unless they are loaded with citric acidFor reference
Just in case -
@Peatful You'll need to go back and check out some of the links. There is definitely a difference.
Georgi posted a study, which I believe I shared the link to in this thread, about glucose being used therapeutically in ALS. Why do mostly athletes develop ALS? Traumatic brain injuries are the likely cause. But Dr. Stephens says even milder bumps on the head that aren't obviously concussive will cause irreversible (via normal healing mechanisms) glucose limiting effects on the brain. Pure dextrose seems to be healing these brain injuries.
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This?
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/high-sugar-diet-prolongs-survival-in-als-patients.3301/
A high SUGAR diet
And thar happens to be dextrose?It’s about sugar
Not dextrose per say as far as I understandExperiment
Have fun
Enjoy the journey -
"A 2019 study from the University of Arizona found that increasing GLUCOSE DELIVERY to motor neurons affected by amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) may help patients live longer and function better. ALS is a progressive neurodegenerative disease that causes increased metabolic activity, known as hypermetabolism. When ALS-affected neurons are given more GLUCOSE, they can convert it into energy to meet their abnormally high energy demands. This may help improve mobility and increase survival rates.
Other research suggests that a higher GLUCOSE-based diet may also help slow ALS progression by preventing protein misfolding. Misfolded proteins can accumulate in the brains of ALS patients, which may contribute to disease progression." -
@S-Holmes mm-hmm
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I don't think sucrose turns into glucose. Half of sucrose is glucose. Half of it is fructose. Both are metabolized. There are other sugars out there like lactose. It is also metabolized. But there are some that aren't.
Ray has spoken highly n earlier articles of fructose. In the way that it is more easily absorbed and metabolized. So clearly, it does not turn into glucose as you would say it does.
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@yerrag
"Data from the present study show that ∼90% of dietary fructose is converted into glucose and other metabolites, such as lactate and glycerate, by the small intestine before it reaches the liver. Feb 23, 2018" -
@yerrag said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
I don't think sucrose turns into glucose. Half of sucrose is glucose. Half of it is fructose. Both are metabolized. There are other sugars out there like lactose. It is also metabolized. But there are some that aren't.
Ray has spoken highly n earlier articles of fructose. In the way that it is more easily absorbed and metabolized. So clearly, it does not turn into glucose as you would say it does.
Yes
Im not talking about the processing
Fructose differs in structure etc from lactose obviously
Etc etc etcIm saying
We drink fructose (once processed)
“Oh. Glucose to our brain.”
We drink lactose (once processed)
“Oh. Glucose to our brain”But of course they have different properties
They are two different “foods”Now
This differs from starch vs sugar
Although starchy carbs “turn to glucose”
Very different -
Just thought of something
Im saying mono and disaccharides are the same once turned to glucose….
Same energy per gram….Lactose.
Fructose
Sucrose
EtcI stand corrected if im wrong here
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@Insomniac said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@yerrag said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
How is the digestive process bypassed? I fail to see the logic. One way the digestive process is bypassed is by IV feeding. But I don't know if this is what you mean.
This is my main issue with the whole concept. Stephens is claiming isolated dextrose has special properties however it raises glucose in the blood just like food does. So how can the glucose put there from corn sugar do something different from glucose put there from food or even an IV?
I hear you. I would have to say dextrose has the same properties as glucose and that there is no difference I'm how the body metabolizes it, both being simple sugars and in the form of 100% glucose. So another mechanism is at work that disposes the body to more quickly metabolize dextrose.
The only difference I can think of is the rate of glucose entry into the blood could be faster and have a greater concentration peak than could be achieved by food under ordinary conditions especially at higher doses of more than 200 grams people are spiking their glucose through the roof but at least it would be doing something different so you can consider a medicinal effect.If you're familiar with a blood sugar test that was widely available until the 90s (the 5hr oral glucose tolerance test, since replaced by the much less useful hokey pokey HbA1c), a 75gr bolus of glucose is taken after an overnight fast and blood sugar readings are taken every hour. This test was done under supervision because some people (with blood sugar regulation problems) could faint halfway through it because their blood sugar would drop so low.
I ask myself how much more this fainting would happen if a 200g bolus were taken. Yet this risk in not even mentioned by Dr. Stephens. And I wonder why.
It is as if no such event has ever occurred in Dr. Stephen's trials. It's as if all people, with a wide range of blood sugar regulation issues from none to extremely tending to become hypoglycemic (I was one before I fixed myself), are not liable to faint from hypoglycemia.
So, I'm curious as to why. It's as if taking dextrose flips a switch that taking glucose wouldn't - that suddenly everything is hunky dory where very large dextrose intakes (akin to a flood of biblical proportions) would easily be absorbed and metabolized, with nary a problem.
The only answer I could think of is that the body is equipped to handle a sudden deluge of glucose through the polyol pathway, which converts glucose to fructose, and makes possible the large absorption and metabolism of a sugar glucose possible thru its conversion to fructose.
In addition, the body would be triggered to release insulin in large quantities which would inhibit lipolysis, which would clear the way for fatty acid oxidation to be suppressed (given fatty acids in blood would be depleted), paving the way for a high proportion of energy to be produced via mitochondrial oxidation.
At the same time, the pancreas' beta cells would become fully functional with its stem cell exposed to glucose as its stem cells turn into functional beta cells that produce insulin.
Altogether, this transforms the body from a moribund state of low or nonexistent sugar metabolism to a fully alive highly metabolic state over time during therapy. With the caveat that the body has enough stores of nutrients such as vitamin A, D, magnesium to accompany the higher metabolic state's use of more nutrients.
But it is hard to conceive that no such groundwork has been considered and nutrients made available in the therapy, to ensure this transformation happens. And yet people are reporting blood sugar improvements such as that of @evan-hinkle 's blood sugar values.
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But you're still insisting fructose and lactose turns into glucose before it reaches the brain. I don't know about lactose, but fructose does not have to turn intobglucose to be absorbed and metabolized.
Unless I'm reading wrongly in Peat's early articles on fructose.
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@yerrag said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
But you're still insisting fructose and lactose turns into glucose before it reaches the brain. I don't know about lactose, but fructose does not have to turn intobglucose to be absorbed and metabolized.
Unless I'm reading wrongly in Peat's early articles on fructose.
From my understanding
Mono (ie: fructose) and di (ie: lactose)
Both are converted into glucose before reaching the brainStarches different story of course
If dextrose is mono
And it does differ from di
Maybe that’s why it’s recommended by this guy? -
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@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
But there's some sort of concert going on.
@ThinPicking said in Are Polls a Good Idea?:
Is it actually possible to substitute in either direction. Maybe just a temporary lack of control and engagement in some. Many ways a person can delude themselves. Misappropriate their condition and capability.I don't know. So this isn't an objection. I'll be creating some posts on the subject at some point.
https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/22/23/9115
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7075501/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10002343/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/STROKEAHA.123.040499
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987719307145
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1568163721002865
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2014.00278/fullFor the liver fixation of the Vitamin A toxicity crowd.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7981187/
For their aversion to fructose.
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/pharmacology/articles/10.3389/fphar.2021.695486/full