Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard
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@wester130 thx! I have that at home, but how long do you leave it on for? I used to use, but after 5 or so minutes my scalp was on fire. So I wasn't sure if thstcwas such a good thing
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@tubert persoanlly i can leave it on overnight but Vitamin A and retinol products may be better to remove old collagen
idealabs sell a Vitamin A product in alcohol so it's not as greasy
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@wester130 ok, thanks for the info! It may be that my scalp just needs to get used to the acid
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actually this has made me reconsider diclofenac
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/diclofenac-gel-oil-prepared-iontoforesis-photos.91503/
in hindsight, When I used diclofenac I used a spray bottle with mint essence, maybe that's what I was reacting to
I may try voltarol gel instead
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That does make me reconsider trying it. Impressive.
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what part of diclofenec causes the growth?
is it the suppression of tgfb-1? just a guess
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@wester130 Powerful anti-inflammatory action. Whatever is going on in the scalp that causes the inflammation, it reduces that inflammation effectively, and allows hair to grow again. Could be the lowering of pgd2.
This post from a thread on hairlosstalk seems to hit the nail on the head
If you look at the mechanism of action, it inhibits cox as most NSAIDs. Means it lowers also the beneficial pge1, pge2 and pgf2a. However bald scalp mostly expresses pgd2 and low pge2, makes sense that there is overall a beneficial effect. Story changes probably once you want actual regrowth, and are already taking finasteride/dutasteride/ru etc and also start more targeting of that pathway (crth2 inhibitors, pge2, pgf2a analogues...). I guess one could in fact try diclo plus topical pge analgues (you probably at least want pge2 analogue plus castor oil and in addition some potent pgf2a like chloprostenol) to avoid this issue and save some money on seti etc (and avoid the non-responder issue with crth2i therapy). I also would avoid diclo while woundling, as inflammation triggers the growthfactors which makes it even less practical as pgd2 and crth2 inhibit wound induced hf neogenesis.
I bet pairing it with castor oil taken orally would be a powerful combination.
The ricinoleic acid in castor oil is a potent pge2 agonist, it stimulates pge2, and potentially has an antagonizing effect with pgd2. Pge2 promotes relaxtion of tissues, pgd2 promotes constriction of tissues.
Good video from More Plates More Dates on the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOnK9bX5TLMSo you lower the high balding scalp levels of pgd2 with the Diclofenac gel, then take castor oil to promote pge2, and get even more pgd2 antagonist action.
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@Hearthfire it still sounds a dangerous drug
I am consdiering NMN, nicotinamide mononucleotide, seems better than niacinamide
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I did a bit more reading on the side effects, the crazy stuff like heart attacks seems it's related to people taking it in tablet form in fairly high doses, and it's because it raises your blood pressure.
I don't think rubbing the gel on topically would cause an issue, not anymore than nizoral/minoxidil and some of the other things people use topically. Since you can now buy the gel on freakin' Amazon without a prescription, I imagine it's very safe to use topically.
People take NSAIDs all the time that increase the risk of heart attack. Doesn't mean it will. If you're not healthy, by all means avoid it.
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@Hearthfire @wester130
It will be good to hear how you guys do on it. Definitely interested to know if you get any sides, with heart and stomach. Too bad that Hairlosstalk forum poster never reported back. -
@wester130 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
I may try voltarol gel instead
Interesting. You're thinking the non-generic may be more pure, therefore less sides?
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@Hearthfire said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
I also would avoid diclo while woundling, as inflammation triggers the growthfactors which makes it even less practical as pgd2 and crth2 inhibit wound induced hf neogenesis.
If true, this is good information to have.
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@Mossy possibly less sides, also need to be aware of a strange dry cough it can cause
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@Mossy said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
After some additional research, I'm going to have to count out taking Diclofenac gel for now, based on potential severe stomach issues, such as ulcers and deterioration of the lining.
If I understand these posts correctly, some users of Diclofenac take an additional supplement or drug to counter the lining deterioration, ulcer issue. That seems like a tightrope that would be hard to walk, getting the balance just right. At least for someone highly susceptible to side effects.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChronicPain/comments/bn7a7z/comment/en3g3zc/
Please correct me if I'm worng. I think these side effects are somewhat common when oral Diclofenac is used, but super super rare when it is applied topically? European drug regulatory agencies doesn't seem to list any such effects, only local irritation / skin-related side effects, and possible allergic reactions (asthma, swelling, very rare, less than 1 report in 10 000), nothing else. Anecdotal evidence seems to support that.
But obviously, with drug / supplement sensitivity you described, one never knows
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Yeah, I did a little reading into it, it seems to be from oral pills at moderate to high doses.
Other NSAIDs people take have similar side effects, but millions of people take them every day without issue.
I think topical is probably safe.
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@Mossy you should still take caution but this says topical is safer
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@BearWithMe said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
@Mossy said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
After some additional research, I'm going to have to count out taking Diclofenac gel for now, based on potential severe stomach issues, such as ulcers and deterioration of the lining.
If I understand these posts correctly, some users of Diclofenac take an additional supplement or drug to counter the lining deterioration, ulcer issue. That seems like a tightrope that would be hard to walk, getting the balance just right. At least for someone highly susceptible to side effects.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChronicPain/comments/bn7a7z/comment/en3g3zc/
Please correct me if I'm worng. I think these side effects are somewhat common when oral Diclofenac is used, but super super rare when it is applied topically? European drug regulatory agencies doesn't seem to list any such effects, only local irritation / skin-related side effects, and possible allergic reactions (asthma, swelling, very rare, less than 1 report in 10 000), nothing else. Anecdotal evidence seems to support that.
But obviously, with drug / supplement sensitivity you described, one never knows
Thank you for pointing that out. I came back here to say something to that exact point, but you beat me to it. It does seem like those effects are from oral, not topical. But I can tell you that I'm about 95% sure I'll still get them from topical, albeit not as strong. I can't even use topical niacin or niacinamide without negative effects, e.g., allergic reactions: over all malaise, hypoxia-like breathing issues, . Even so, I do have some Diclofenac in my cart on Amazon! I am mulling over whether the name brand would offer a higher quality product, and therefore less sides, as @wester130 was considering.
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@wester130 said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
@Mossy you should still take caution but this says topical is safer
Indeed. Thank you for bringing that up. I would start very slowly.
"To desire action is to desire limitation" — G. K. Chesterton
"The true step of health and improvement is slow." — Novalis -
@Mossy Be careful not to cause the side effects just by expecting the side effects. Wish you the best of luck.
It is very interesting that Diclofenac is apparently effective for both hair loss and beard loss. The pathology of the two seems to be very different, almost the opposite?
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@BearWithMe said in Diclofenac gel to regrow hair on bald head and beard:
@Mossy Be careful not to cause the side effects just by expecting the side effects. Wish you the best of luck.
It is very interesting that Diclofenac is apparently effective for both hair loss and beard loss. The pathology of the two seems to be very different, almost the opposite?
I get that. A self-fulfilling prophecy. I am conscious of that. And thank you!
I have read many stories of people successfully using minoxidil for beard growth. So, maybe not that different after all.
"To desire action is to desire limitation" — G. K. Chesterton
"The true step of health and improvement is slow." — Novalis
