Urgent overdose (b1, prog)
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Sorry you're experiencing this. Chris Masterjohn has a Substack article about the potential pitfalls of high-dose thiamine supplementation. The tl;dr is that it can cause sulfur issues, cause depletion of other nutrients, or stress weaknesses/defects in your energy metabolism processes. After my own bad thiamine experiences I got a lot of nutrient testing as well as experimenting with molybdenum, etc. I'm not sure any of it helped as much as time though.
I can add more tomorrow if you are interested. Hope you are doing alright.
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too high co2 can cause shortness of breath symptoms. happened to me earlier this week. i was drinking too much sparkling water, taking b1 hcl orally, aspirin, t3. i ending up waking in the middle of my sleep but when i wanted to go back to sleep i felt like i would suffocate in my sleep from not breathing. it was scary as fuck. i stopped everything and just drank a shit ton of coconut water and sunbathing, some cyproheptadine to relax. now its gone.
check out this post
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/what-is-happening-in-a-panic-attack.16579/#post-225622"CO2 seems to be a culprit here for some people. But it's not as simple as high CO2 = panic, since bag breathing works.
That lead me to the following SA article from 2010 explains the mechanism is high acid levels in the amygdala is responsible for the fear response (demonstrated by mice with KO genes). They say CO2 increases acid levels in the the brain and most patients with a panic disorder who breathe in air with 35% CO2 (air is typically 0.04%) experience a panic attack while healthy volunteers do not. Close relatives of the people who experience panic attacks will also usually have a first time panic attack when they breathe in the high CO2 air suggesting a genetic connection. Lactate buildup also increases brain acid levels and exercise is said to make brain lactate removal more efficient, which is in line with exercises anti-anxiety effects.
Panic Attacks as a Problem of pH"
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did it deplete molybdenum?
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It sounds like anemia might be a root cause to a lot of your issues - have you had ferritin tested alongside an iron panel? I know Peat was generally anti-iron, however sufficient iron is necessary for maintaining high metabolism and keeping thyroid in check (sufficient iron is essential for thyroid hormone conversion among many others things). One paper I read noted that ferritin levels < 70 ng/ml impaired activity of iron-dependent enzymes in the cell. Unfortunately a lot of things can bring iron down, so getting ferritin tested plus the full iron panel is helpful to discern what the problem might be. Ferritin is ideally > 100 ng/ml, but not too much higher (I’d start getting concerned if it got around 150 or higher). Moving forward and regarding the bigger picture of your health, it might be helpful to first focus on getting your ferritin/iron issues resolved, and then moving onto thyroid-focused interventions if you’re still having problems.
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I don’t think iron is relevant. I have heavy metal toxicity, low glutathione status…
Right now, I’m not sure. I just know that I’m scared of eating anything. At least anything that will stimulate the metabolism or cause a displacement in nutrients. The only thing I really had today were egg yolks. Before that, I felt like I was suffocating.
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I’ve been thinking that I would die… right now I’m more stabilized. I’ve tried:
– Riboflavin
– Niacinamide
– Pyridoxine
– Biotin
– Folic Acid (unnecessary, test came high)
– B12 (unnecessary, test came fine)
– Magnesium
– Manganese
– Chromium
– Vanadium (toxic, I thought it was over)
– Vitamin E (I wanted to protect against Vanadium exposure, felt a sense of relief after taking)Haven’t tried:
– Boron
– Molybdenum -
Sometimes I actually noticed an improvement. But it only lasted shortly. I thought I was gonna be good, next thing you know… I’m thinking I’m gonna die
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You were onto something with the low carb. I was basically fasting yesterday, only had eaten stuff like avocados and nuts. Later that night, I tested my blood pressure before and after drinking a bit of orange juice.
before OJ: 108/84
after OJ: 107/74
few minutes after OJ: 122/87
I felt bad afterwards and I was losing my coordination. I had some fish and it calmed me down.
It’s not a cure ofc, but I’m not so sure about consuming carbs
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I would stop trying to chase what individual supplement you should take unless you want to get a full nutrient panel... which is expensive, turnaround time is a couple weeks at least, and full is really a misnomer because no panel I've found literally tests everything. Thiamine clears the system pretty quickly, especially a high dose of supplement, so the worst should be over. If you can pin down some specific symptoms that might point to a specific deficiency, that would help, but it's hard if you mostly just feel stressed, off-kilter, general bad, etc. It's so hard to find supplements in sane doses that you're effectively mega-dosing everything you try in an attempt to fix bad after effects of a super-megadose of something.
I'm not a doc or any kind of health-related professional. But having been through a similar experience with thiamine, what I wish I would have done first is just focus on having the most balanced, nutrient-dense diet possible, especially in terms of balanced macros, and avoiding thiamine-fortified foods. In particular I wish I could have gotten myself to eat beef liver, which is ofc a good source of B vitamins but not particularly high in thiamine, and it IS a very good source of molybdenum. The nutrient panel I got didn't test molybdenum so I didn't end trying it until months after my thiamine troubles when I was feeling mostly back to normal, but it did seem helpful. I don't eat legumes or dairy so I really should be eating liver, just haven't found a palatable method yet.
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@bioenergetical hard to navigate this unique situation there isnt any precedent for it but i was thinking the lower carb just while the thiamine is active so more co2 wasnt being produced as much temporarily. (its interesting u mentioned vit E relief, thats 1 of the things shown to counter some of acetazolamide effect, or vit C). But now the thiamine should be mostly gone out of your system i'd think its been a while, if it was hydrochloride form
whats left might be after effects if things dont settle around this time, ,
does the test show minerals too or just vitamins? -
No, it only shows some things. I’m still waiting for the B1, B2, B6 results.
(4 days after initial overdose)
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I began consuming carbs again. Some cookies, orange juice, lentils (molybdenum)… eventually I would start trembling and getting desperate again. I took certain supplements (which stabilized me for a bit) and now I’m trying to fast again
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I’ve noticed that my hands can change
This was a few days ago (yesterday it was also like that)
I took this just now (fasted)
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