Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List

[dht]

@alfredoolivas aromatizable androgen esters are poison im ngl, i feel considerably better on pregnenolone, dhea and progesterone compared to test E and P at 6-7mgs per day with DHT Enanthate, so i have no idea how you tolerate 2 grams per week

[alfredoolivas]

@alfredoolivas said in Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List:

However, if you do not turn testosterone into estrogen, it is a very stabilising, anti-cortisol and anti-estrogenic substance, that's effects are barely noticeable.
"Testosterone by itself is more of a quiet foundation than a raging storm. It keeps things steady, blunts stress, and subtly reinforces resilience without making a scene. It’s like having a solid, well-built engine—efficient, reliable, and not overly flashy unless you start tinkering with the fuel mix (estrogen)."

• The whole cell is a receptor and the effects of a substance depend on the state of the cell - that is why we all have different reactions to different substances, and as your cells change due to depleting PUFA for example, you will develop different reactions to different supplements

@dht This was kind of my explanation, probably PUFA depletion and thyroid and test acting as an AI

[dht]

@alfredoolivas still though, 2 grams? Speaking of PUFA depletion I've noticed since starting DHT I have required less thyroid for symptom relief

[alfredoolivas]

@dht Hans Amato, who is probably PUFA depleted too, said he did a 600mg of Test E and 600mg of Mast E, and felt nothing.

I think estradiol is responsible for a lot of the effects of testosterone, and since estradiol is controlled by PUFA, I think I can tolerate it without any excess dopamine and serotonin for example. Just my thoughts.

[dht]

@alfredoolivas what about shortening your life? RBC production? do you donate blood? supplement iron? at that point why just not take the harmless precursors with progesterone and thyroid as an AI?

[alfredoolivas]

@dht lots of crossover with androgens and thyroid. Both are beneficial to mitochondria, even the toxic androgens like winstrol.

Both are anti-cortisol and estrogenic too

[A Former User]

@sushi_is_cringe wtf crazy plot twist! Now everything makes more sense. Here I was thinking I was taking to some obese dude who couldn't put the fork down. Now the reason for his appetite struggles and poor response to thyroid are clear. Like hitting the gas pedal with no fuel.

Alfredo, I hope you come to realize you don't need all those drugs to maintain a killer physique. Seriously, you don't want to end up like Zyzz.

[alfredoolivas]

@dht well based on experience, observations and older studies to be honest, I have a “holistic ” theory that it is acting identical to progesterone in my body. Can’t prove it or justify it to anyone but myself.

[dht]

@alfredoolivas Interesting, I saw Ben Westgate on twitter say that testosterone over 1000mgs per week is non suppressive because the aromatase enzyme caps out at 600mgs per week so the excess Testosterone and DHT acts as AI to bring back LH and FSH signaling the same way pregnenolone does at high doses whilst shutdown

[alfredoolivas]

@dht yeah I have studies showing androgen receptor agonism decreases aromatase, blocks estrogen receptor translocation, and androgens such as testosterone, DHT and nandrolone, being able to block estradiol from binding to the receptor directly.

I also have a rodent study that showed pregnenolone yes, but also testosterone being able to block testicular atrophy from steroid use.

I think androgens by themselves can lower LH and FSH, and lowering estradiol with an AI or lowering prolactin isn’t enough to recover the supressed pituarity, otherwise DHT and its derivatives would be non supressive - unless they are estrogrnjc too by some unknown mechanism (metabolites such as 3a androstenediol)

Peat said testosterone was anti estrogneic once and I think he was on to something, that was discovered and discussed back in the 20th century

[A Former User]

@dht whats ur dht dose and roa

[A Former User]

@alfredoolivas do you eat any pufa at all?

[dht]

@sushi_is_cringe currently taking 25mgs every day, what does roa mean?

https://x.com/BowTiedUM/status/1894894131886919965

i tried DHT enanthate solo for a week and felt good with no signs of suppression and then added test prop in and it made the experience worse probably due to low pregnenolone production.

[A Former User]

@dht route of administration

do you think 25mg per day is particularly suppressive

[dht]

@sushi_is_cringe i inject it,

i don't believe dht is suppressive at 25mgs because higher estrogen levels cause the hypothalamus to reduce the secretion of GnRh, which in turn means suppressed LH and FSH production from the pituitary. so before the exogenous test (or aromatizable androgen) even has a chance to cause suppression through androgen receptor mediated feedback, you are already suppressed from the aromatization.

[alfredoolivas]

@sushi_is_cringe 4g a day (chicken breast) currently. I have avoided it for nearly 4 years, but I still ate eggs and salmon a bit for the first year. I went to a close to zero PUFA 2 and a half years ago when I removed eggs and salmon from my diet, and I did a zero fat diet for a year, until last September.

[A Former User]

@dht maybe im misinterpreting what you are saying but 70mg transdermal dht for a couple years did lower T in study

@alfredoolivas so you eat about a lb of chicken breast skinless a day

[alfredoolivas]

@sushi_is_cringe sometimes 2 lbs it depends on the day

[dht]

@sushi_is_cringe im sure dht is suppressive at supraphysiological doses that's why I plan to continue supplementing the upstream hormones rather then continuing to use test esters

[samson]

@alfredoolivas Gilbert Ling spearheaded the idea, he's who I'd start with. but anyone in the bioenergetic tradition tastily opposes the sodium receptor theory. Ling, Szent-Gyorgyi, Selye, and Warburg are all researchers whose work opposes the idea of a cell membrane with receptors. not sure if you're just new to the space, but this is something many "peaters" who go beyond simple dietary or supplement recommendations talk about, peat has talked a lot about it in interviews as well. If I remember correctly he even wrote to Ling in the 50s asking for career advice and talking about the difficulty he had integrating into the rigid platonism of academia.

if you search "membrane" or other related terms here you'll find plenty of clips of peat speaking on the subject
https://bioenergetic.life