Glucose loading cures everything?
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Does anyone have a CGM to see a minute by minute status of blood sugar after taking in the bolus of dextrose? Actually, Dr. Stephens wouldn't find that hard to do. Instead of a spinal tap, he can ask his patient/clients if they can be a test subject, which isn't a hard ask at all.
It would tell us how high blood glucose went after the bolus intake before dropping, and how fast and how low blood sugar goes down. Does it go down so low to be hypoglycemic, and if not, why?
The fact that this is easy to do but not being done makes me suspicious that Dr. Stephens isn't really interested in getting to the meat of it, and would rather have this remain as s mystery.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
Of course, Stephens is a neuro guy. As a carpenter seeing everything as a nail, Stephens would want to use a spinal tap.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
This post is deleted! -
@yerrag What's in it for him? He told me his client fees are "whatever you can afford" meaning free for some. His books are by no means best sellers. He for sure isn't in this to get rich.
I see in Dr Stephens what made me a fan of Dr Peat many years ago. He believes everyone should have access to free or affordable health information that, instead of filling the coffers of the medical industrial complex, will actually promote health and well-being for any and all, and that it shouldn't only be accessible to the wealthy and elite.
So being the perennial lab rat that I am, I'm happy to participate in what may end up being a massive paradigm shifting experiment. So far so good.
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@yerrag said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Of course, Stephens is a neuro guy. As a carpenter seeing everything as a nail, Stephens would want to use a spinal tap.
This I think. Although the CSF is closer to (his) wire. For the same reason he may be a little blind to the invasive/uncomfortable nature of it, temporarily.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10174426/
I've never had one, but know someone with hydrocephalus. These tests aren't very nice.
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@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@evan-hinkle said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
so maybe a quarter tsp or so of added salt per meal
Thanks Evan. I'm not reducing what's going on here to this, but still...
That doesn't sound like very much to me and Jennifer is certainly right about this.
I agree that salted food tastes over-salted after a period of reduced salt intake.
In my experience if I'm lacking in it for a while, I have to slowly ramp up. Or resist a thirst response. And vice versa. If I overdo it. I have to slowly add water. And resist a salt taste. But the latter is very rare for me these days.
I consider Rays "salt to taste" line a cautionary. Because so many people in so many different states would pick up on it. Haidut and others posts on RPF were more useful to me in pushing the boat, so to speak. And finding out that more was better, for me.
This has been my experience, as well. For the majority of my life my diet has been unprocessed so my taste for salt was low, but a practitioner recommended I increase my salt intake and it turned out that more was better for me, too.
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On the advice of @ThinPicking , (and some studies I read “over there” ive decided to up the salt. Today is day one, we’ll see. I never ate salt growing up, so the two tsp a day I was eating over the past year or so was an insane amount to me, lol.
On another note, I’ve decided to lower my dose of glucose. I had a hit to do so today and it felt “right.” I have heard that perhaps when the brain “wakes up” keeping it in a steady supply more frequently is a better strategy than larger doses 3-4 times a day. I have found this to be true, as the larger doses seemed to return the very symptoms that had originally been eliminated. The lower dose with more frequency, (same daily total dosage) has again eliminated the brain fog and returned the state I was initially experiencing.
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@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
I'm currently down a few rabbit holes about this paradigm split. Which has been present for a lot longer than 6 months, I just didn't notice. Generally I'm paying far more attention to things I have no need to see for the whole experience. And hopefully for your benefit more than my nerd.
Please do share the findings you unearth when you resurface from that. I can't stem more of that myself right now. I know there's a lot. Only last month haidut also wrote about sodium chloride again in a brief sum-up, the deductions of which I found very unsatisfactory and essentially inconclusive. I reckon you will find a lot of positives on glucose utilization through oxphos and insuline responses by potassium and chloride. And by magnesium on a later, deeply intracellular level.
@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
But something is going on with them. Do you have people in your life who never seem to eat fruit or put sugar in tea or coffee? Because I do. Beside a monologue about oxidative metabolism, I never thought twice about it. Until recently.
Have you noticed any other common traits in these people? As in eating extraordinarily lots of starches or vegetables? Or having had a fortunate upbringing without events which fostered and engrained the notorious learned helplessness and its associated chronic metabolic shifts?
@yerrag said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Of course, Stephens is a neuro guy. As a carpenter seeing everything as a nail, Stephens would want to use a spinal tap.
If we're after the question of where and how the given dextrose really disappears into across the different tissues I can see the necessity to align measurements of BG with measurements in CSF over time. My impression also is that he says those remarks about spinal taps in a slightly humorous way and he wouldn't really want to perform them. He's a psychologist, after all, with a specialized understanding for neurological patterns as these relate to behaviour. Spinal tapping would need to be done by clinical experimental neurologists or neuropsychiatrists with an understanding for a variety of specific markers for energy metabolism which are not usually part of even extended CSF testing panels and certainly not in ambulatory settings. It could be wise to kindly decline if anyone ever offers you an ambulatory spinal tap.
@Razvan
If you're doing perfectly well with regard to your physical and mental health by all means continue whatever you use to do but don't flatter yourself by falsely assuming that I were here to talk shit with you. -
Having a mystery live on requires a high priest and a cult surrounding and supporting that priesthood.
Keeping things as a mystery disables rather than enables. Having an ignorance and joyfully accepting it goes with the false virtue of humility hat comes with saying "I am not worthy."
If the mystery is gone and you know why, in this case, dextrose loading restores your brain as well as the entire body's metabolic capacity, wouldn't you be off on your own instead of having to rely on the possibility that you need to be coached by Dr. Stephens as a fallback if your experimenting goes awry?
Aren't there enough mysteries around us that makes the world dependent on high priests to weave a fairy tale existence revolving around many phenomena that can't be proven yet accepted by the mainstream? Such as the existence of virus and the rabbitholes of rabies and COVID that emanate from our worship of those who claim to understand what we cannot fathom?
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@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
I've never had one, but know someone with hydrocephalus. These tests aren't very nice.
Indeed. Dr. House the show makes it appear a spinal tap is as needed as a cup of coffee.
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@CrumblingCookie No problem.
Thanks Mosaic01 ! -
@CrumblingCookie said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
If we're after the question of where and how the given dextrose really disappears into across the different tissues I can see the necessity to align measurements of BG with measurements in CSF over time. My impression also is that he says those remarks about spinal taps in a slightly humorous way and he wouldn't really want to perform them.
Sorry I don't have a built-in filter like you do-
- to know when to take him seriously or not.
I don't have your solomonic wisdom.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
I cant say much about the mechanisms but ive been trying it for 3 weeks. Effects came in immediatly.
started at 20g 3x a day but im now at 50g 4x a day.
Dextrose feels absolutely different to other carb sources (maybe due to the microbiome).
Not realy fond of dr stephens explanation tho. Totally understand anyone who doubts the whole thing.
The effects and changes i experience are amazing however. With only little sideeffects.
I will report back in 6 months wether im diabetic and fat or if i abolished my health issues. -
@Ben said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Dextrose feels absolutely different to other carb sources (maybe due to the microbiome).
Not realy fond of dr stephens explanation tho. Totally understand anyone who doubts the whole thing.
Hello Ben. If you're comfortable doing so, could you share difficulty with sugar/fruit relative to this?
I'm gathering, and reading, and thinking. Sure I'm not the only one. So your answer's for the room.
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Not realy having difficulty per se with other carb sources. But they do almost nothing for energy or brainfog or wellbeing. They just satiate and taste ok or make me sleepy. Some even cause minorish issues like pizza/certain breads/orange juicr
causing inflammation in my gums on some days, rice seems to make my digestion back up a little(constipation?) and soft drinks, fruit juices and honey make my teeth sometimes feel unpleasant.Dont have any of that with dextrose. The high dose at once might make one feel a little off for 2-5 mins but then its good mood and brainfunction for me.
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@Ben said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Not realy fond of dr stephens explanation tho. Totally understand anyone who doubts the whole thing.
The effects and changes i experience are amazing however. With only little sideeffects.
I will report back in 6 months wether im diabetic and fat or if i abolished my health issues.Yes. Also, diabetics will admonish us of the impending doom and immediate and forceful creation of long-term diabetic damages on kidney, heart, eyes and everything due to apparently not really measurable spikes in BG and insuline and the signalling for such drastic insuline spikes and due to the apparently covert extreme stress signalling for regulation of BG when the dextrose serving wears off.
I wonder whether there's no cause to worry about the latter as long as dextrose dosing is so that liver glycogen stores always remain full? Or as long as dextrose dosing is sufficiently continuous, either by osmotic stomach concentrations (with little water or with foods) or by 2-hourly servings? Would these measures reliably prevent the otherwise typical and dreaded stress responses which we otherwise might not even consciously take notice of (as diabetics would warn)?
Maybe Dr. Stephens' therapeutic approach as far as we know it is not the cleverest or gentlest way to go about it yet. However, there's undeniably something fundamentally effective about regularly lots of dextrose.
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@Ben I think we could use more science in the explanation, but he admits that this isn't something that has been researched much. I began homeopathy 35 years ago with no "research" to be found. It saved my life. This can't hurt, and I'm retracing something every day. These past few days it's been covid tongue. Red meat...
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@Ben Great report!
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I've gotta say, we love the glucose therapy so far. We had a long day yesterday and got home late. I don't believe we could have kept up the pace without it. Even my husband, who isn't always enthusiastic about yet ANOTHER experiment was asking for more. Both of us were transformed within seconds each time after taking it and we were able to keep up with our little grands (2 and 6) until very late.
The next test was whether I would have insomnia after a very busy day and long drive home. I usually have to start winding down around 8:30. Unloading the car and putting away groceries (which I was doing at 11 PM) will usually keep me awake for hours. But a small dose of glucose water and a snack and I was out fast.
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@S-Holmes how much dextrose are you taking?
