Mike Fave and Jay Feldman debunk Grant Genereux's vitamin A is a toxin book
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Ep. 119: Vitamin A Toxicity: Examining the Evidence for Vitamin A Deficiency
Youtube Video -
Ray’s work did this before a user on the RPF introduced Grant’s work.
That OP no longer exists there btw…
Ray’s work; his teachings and writings- they speak for themselves.
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I remember he had a debuning video on Low VA a few months ago, but I honestly found his debunking pretty weak and barely scratching the surface.
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Interesting comment GDg. Outside normie life, I'm busy entertaining the idea there may be something that actually seperates people who consider themselves to benefit from this and maybe other strange dietary 'protocols'. That's likely (to me) to be circulatory in origin. I see you're (possibly) indicating 'digestion', 'vitality' and 'liver health' issues in another thread, so this may apply to you.
If there's any truth in the idea, then Mike's content on this is really aimed at people who don't have that kind of issue. And may get caught up in 'protocols' that don't apply to them. Making them worse, or even worse, giving themselves the issue that may underlie this.
I found his video 'Beware of the Low Vitamin A Zealots' very well thought out and expressed. And this one with Jay Feldman is even better.
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Excellent content @Mike_Fave and Jay Feldman, outstanding job. You're putting institutions that are supposed to be vigilant and concerned with things like this to shame.
And what good is intelligence without a humour.
"My grandma could've figured this out Jay."
I cracked up. Thank you.
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Thanks for sharing this. Good video. I haven't read Grant's book, but now I probably won't. Their review of Grant's book definitely provides a lot of evidence that Vitamin A deficiency is real and that it can be incredibly harmful. This even resonates with the studies conducted by Professor Hale and cited by Weston A Price. I was discussing these on Genereux's forum a few months ago and no one there convinced me that those studies couldn't have truly been showing Vitamin A deficiencies corrected by adding back in Vitamin A (via CLO or green pasture).
Anyway, good video from Fave and Feldman.
Low VA still intrigues me, but I definitely agree with Feldman and Fave that improvements that some see on the diet could be from factors other than VA. And they rightly call out the potential danger in "if I feel bad, it's detox... if I feel good, it's working"
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@GreekDemiGod
I found the whole no posting sources or poor references as a show stopper on its's own. The other explanations were just icing on Grant's cake. -
Bioenergetic member Mike Fave (aka CLASH) "reviews the scientific studies used as references in Grant Genereux's book "Poisoning for profits" on the supposed harmful effects of vitamin A on human health."
Youtube Video -
The guy is doubling down, but he misses the point again. Claims that the doses to reach toxicity are extremely high, but doesn’t understand that harm begins much earlier.
https://x.com/mikefavescience/status/1815556560522731522?s=46&t=a8gKZoLMKC0o1r60b5az-g -
Another person who isn't able to write "Genereux" properly.
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@GreekDemiGod
i looked for a number and ~10,000iu-12,000 daily is where it gets harmful from increased inflammation in some brain areas, the mitochondria impairment mainly happens over that especially pronounced at ~25,000iu which is where cell death signalling increases a lot too, so i think 5000iu is a good max for benefits without overload
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(my take on that maybe the complex iv fuckery is from exporting too much copper from cells)
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https://www.academia.edu/12646782/Vitamin_A_supplementation_at_pharmacological_doses_induces_nitrosative_stress_on_the_hypothalamus_of_adult_Wistar_rats
~10,000iu starts to show some lipid peroxidation in brain, but barely inhibits complex iv. BUT does show increased cell death signalling in the brain , and inflammatory in brain (tnf-a) , 1000iu/kg too much https://www.academia.edu/14043934/Pharmacological_doses_of_vitamin_A_increase_caspase_3_activity_selectively_in_cerebral_cortex both studies showed inflammation increase in brain ~10,000iu https://www.academia.edu/4945253/Vitamin_A_supplementation_at_clinical_doses_induces_a_dysfunction_in_the_redox_and_bioenergetics_states_but_did_change_neither_caspases_activities_nor_TNF_α_levels_in_the_frontal_cortex_of_adult_Wistar_rats
next dose 25,000iu daily shows a lot higher toxicity, with complex IV inhibition. and these are assumedly rats that have all nutritional factors on point (vit c e etc, apart from probably decently high pufa).*~10,000 - 12,000 iu daily is pushing it to too much
*~25,000 - 30,000 iu daily is a lot worse
*so looks better to stick to <10,000 iu daily, maybe 5000iu is good to get benefits without overload. and should be helpful to ensure some vit c intake -
So this is why I feel semi-retarded after eating big doses of beef liver. I’ve tried smaller doses of pate and get similar benefits without the mental retardation and hair thinning.
I definetly think people should be careful with foods like liver that are exceptionally high in vitamin A. I have noticed pretty bad hair thinning from my mother as well as signs of an altered mental state after she ate copious amounts of my pate unbeknown to me. It’s of no doubt that these high doses of the vitamin aren’t safe for some and even Ray talks about this here: https://www.bioenergetic.life/?q=Retinol+supplement+
I assume the thyroid needs to be optimal for the real benefits of vitamin A and for most that’s not the case.
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Nate Lawrence has described gallbladder/liver issues now. There's definitely something conditional going on here.
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@ThinPicking yeah, I was surprised. I thought he is radiating with health.
He montioned in a reply that he lowered his VA intake and feels a little better from it.I think some amount of soluble fiber is needed for optimal bile functioning.
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Grant has published a reaction post to those videos.
https://ggenereux.blog/2024/07/28/jay-feldmans-and-mike-faves-hit-piece-videos/
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I thought that Grant's reply on his website was pretty good. The most compelling argument is that vitamin A accumulates over a lifetime.
Mike Fave coincidentally posted a new anti-Grant video on YouTube today.
