Ergothioneine - amino acid for life extension.

Ismail

@Mauritio bud, you still taking this? If so, how’s it going? Which brand/product are you taking?

Mauritio

I've only tried it a few times. It felt pretty good, but unfortunately increased my hair loss.

Ismail

@Mauritio oh no! Sorry to hear that bud! I guess you had no choice but to stop.

CrumblingCookie

@Mauritio said in Ergothioneine - amino acid for life extension.:

I've only tried it a few times. It felt pretty good, but unfortunately increased my hair loss.

I wonder whether this could be related to the glutathione system. Perhaps that needs to step up accordingly. Would some 1:1 Glycin and NAC and some xx mg ascorbic acid do the trick?
If that hair loss for you really knocks through within only two days of taking ET it's an undesired but actually very convenient marker.

DavidPS

I get mine from L-reuteri (see) and I have not had any negative side effects.

Store bought mushrooms are most likely grown in manure contaminated with waste from industrial processing of cattle and the like.

cs3000

nice ergothioneine overview
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dietary-sources-of-the-longevity-vitamin-ergothioneine/

**even eating 20g of white button mushroom daily gives a good amount with good effect (1mg), thats already bumped up a bit but for variation in amounts could go 30g, likely sorts ergothionine effects that japanese are getting with their great healthspans

-> 2 servings of mushrooms a week = 1/2 the odds of cognitive impairment

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/346870796_Is_ergothioneine_a_'longevity_vitamin'_limited_in_the_American_diet
(i think their estimates are off going by absolutes, when u look at the doses that have effects and the amounts in foods that arent mushrooms, but if their relative amounts are close its interesting) @luke

The reason it says 1mg for USA is because its including the mushroom consumers, which are only 10% of the people surveyed, so skews the number upward. if they hit the 1mg i think they'd be closer to italy ireland france

Doi: //doi.org/10.1080/10807039.2015.1104241

also this

recent longitudinal unbiased metabolomic study conducted in Sweden involving over 3200 adult men and women consuming a health-conscious food pattern at baseline sought to identify blood metabolites that could predict a lower risk of cardiovascular disease(CVD) and overall mortality(17). Out of 112 metabolites measured at baseline, they found that plasma ERGO levels were the most strongly associated with decreased risk of CVD and reduced mortality after 21⋅4 years of follow-up

Mauritio

@cs3000 that's interesting. I might try ergo again, it start eating mushrooms again!

It's a no brainer if you look at the data...

Luke

@cs3000
Nice find. Another reason to eat mushrooms.

Gut-cleaning effects
aromatase inhibtors
good Ergothioneine source
nutritious in general
If I remember correctly, Dr. Peat also talked about an antihistamine effect

DavidPS

@Luke - I like the list. I would add that it might also delay the onset of MCI.

The Association between Mushroom
Consumption and Mild Cognitive
Impairment: A Community-Based
Cross-Sectional Study in Singapore (2019)

cs3000

@DavidPS

**But there's a potential problem getting it through mushrooms, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8329194/#Sec2 mushrooms antagonistic to androgen receptor
they stop DHT increasing androgen receptor in multiple tissues & can lower vs controls in some tissues

ive noticed a flat mood effect from mushrooms before
heq low amounts 1g-1.5g of white button mushroom water extract (so probably not the ergo, likely b-glucans which are found in way higher amounts)

(the beta glucan content has effects ~250mg here , closely matching white button https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11467013/#ctm270048-sec-0070)

shiitake has 1g/10g cooked b-glucan

here a b-glucan lowered estrogen in the prostate where elevated (normalized in prostate and also normalized low testosterone / AR doi: 10.1039/c4fo00472h ) there's an anti androgen receptor effect pretty potent across tissues by earlier study though using mushroom water extract

mainly because of the high beta glucan content

Here white button mushroom lowered AR in vitro, but in the mice tumors in vivo AR expression didn't lower, even tho tumors shrank (at least short term) (tho its not healthy tissue like the 1st study showed)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8542389/#S17

*maybe a supplement is best if doesnt also include the mushroom powder.
or taking 2g spirullina , if dont respond well to androgen reducing stuff

--
also for ppl eating, wondered if microwaving destroys the ergothionine, nope all ergothioneine stays intact
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/fstr/25/1/25_115/_pdf/-char/en
Best not to boil them 2/3 of the ergothioneine gets drained
Roasting is good and frying should be ok too can pour the fat into the food

DavidPS

@cs3000 = Thanks for all the information. I do not like all the fuss associated with boiling mushrooms as Dr. Peat advised. I am mostly interested in ergothioneine rather than the mushrooms themselves.

Peatbot.com: To cook mushrooms safely and effectively, particularly white button mushrooms, it is recommended to boil them. Here is a detailed method:

Preparation: Clean the mushrooms thoroughly to remove any dirt or debris. You can slice them if desired, but whole mushrooms can also be used.

Boiling: Place the mushrooms in a pot of water and bring it to a boil. It is suggested to keep them at the boiling temperature for at least an hour to ensure safety and maximize the health benefits.

Alternative Cooking Method: While boiling is recommended, you can also fry them in butter for flavor. However, it is still advised to boil them first to reduce any potentially harmful substances.

Cooking Time: Although mushrooms may be safe after boiling for 15 to 20 minutes, cooking them for up to an hour is recommended to ensure they are thoroughly cooked and safe to eat.

This method helps to reduce the agaritine content, a compound found in mushrooms, which decreases significantly with prolonged boiling.

cs3000

Another good one ,
gives weight to ergo as the main compound in mushrooms that gives the main cognition improving effects vs b-glucans

giving mice deficient diet for 5 weeks
then refeeding 3x a week for 2 weeks (2mg/kg or 20mg/kg)

discrimination index (DI), an indicator of learning and memory ability
restored by either amount (and higher than controls) , took 2 weeks

(smaller amounts likely work the same too just with a longer buildup , amounts build to 4 weeks its half life)

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10847428/#Sec2

something interesting is their hippocampal levels didnt restore to controls at 2mg/kg vs 20mg/kg by 2 weeks, but still got the effect. i wonder how much mice usually get & where from. ive seen adding 0.5mg/kg bw to normal mice diet gave behavioral improvements in another study posted here

neurogenesis

cs3000

there's human trials

cognitive improvement
https://www.ls-corporation.co.jp/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/ergothioneine_congitive.pdf

and over 1 year, with people aged > 60
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.07.08.24310085v1.full.pdf

at 6 months, and still gaining at 12 months

. Following ET intake, an increase in Z-scores was observed in RAVLT assessments (immediate and delayed recalls), which evaluates learning ability and memory (Figure 4a&b). In contrast, no significant increase was observed in Z-scores across all NCA components, in the subjects given the placebo.
Block design scores, which assess visual-motor coordination and problem-solving skills, declined over time in both ET and placebo groups (Figure 4g). Although not measured at baseline, Z-scores of SDMT (written format) in the ET group showed a trend to increase from visit 7 to visit 14 (Figure 4i)

(at 4 weeks visit 1 ergo group also had a better lymphocyte-neutrophil ratio)