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    Random, interesting studies

    Literature Review
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    • MauritioM
      Mauritio
      last edited by

      Dates, olives and walnuts contain the highest amounts of the phytoprogestogen syringic acid.

      http://phenol-explorer.eu/contents/polyphenol/420

      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9704030/

      Dare to think.

      My X:
      x.com/Metabolicmonstr

      MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • MauritioM
        Mauritio @Mauritio
        last edited by

        @Mauritio said in Random, interesting studies:

        3,8-Dihydrodiligustilide
        Strong phytoprogestogen.
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3,8-Dihydrodiligustilide

        It has almost the same potency as progesterone (80% of it). And it has no estrogenic or anti-androgenic effects.

        "EtOH extracts of the dried rhizome of L. chuanxiong demonstrated strongest
        progestogenic activity, reaching 80% of that observed with progesterone (100 nM) and had an EC50 of 8 lg/ml (Fig. 1b). The bioactivity of L. chuanxiong extract was spe-
        cific to the PR, and the extract was at least 200-fold less active on other related members of the steroid receptor family like androgen, estrogen and glucocorticoid receptors."

        https://www.sci-hub.wf/10.1016/j.phytochem.2006.01.024

        The plant Ligusticum sinense chuanxiong from which it is extracted is traditionally used to treat uterus issues. It also has been studied to treat strokes and Parkinson's.

        In this review they look at the anti inflammatory effect of it.

        https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7591981/

        Dare to think.

        My X:
        x.com/Metabolicmonstr

        MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • MauritioM
          Mauritio @Mauritio
          last edited by Mauritio

          @Mauritio said in Random, interesting studies:

          @Mauritio said in Random, interesting studies:

          3,8-Dihydrodiligustilide
          Strong phytoprogestogen.
          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3,8-Dihydrodiligustilide

          It has almost the same potency as progesterone (80% of it). And it has no estrogenic or anti-androgenic effects.

          "EtOH extracts of the dried rhizome of L. chuanxiong demonstrated strongest
          progestogenic activity, reaching 80% of that observed with progesterone (100 nM) and had an EC50 of 8 lg/ml (Fig. 1b). The bioactivity of L. chuanxiong extract was spe-
          cific to the PR, and the extract was at least 200-fold less active on other related members of the steroid receptor family like androgen, estrogen and glucocorticoid receptors."

          https://www.sci-hub.wf/10.1016/j.phytochem.2006.01.024

          The plant Ligusticum sinense chuanxiong from which it is extracted is traditionally used to treat uterus issues. It also has been studied to treat strokes and Parkinson's.

          In this review they look at the anti inflammatory effect of it.

          https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7591981/

          HED about 20g of the extract.
          "Effect-time studies indicate that injection of MPA and L. chuanxiong extract raised area-under-curve of progestogenic activity in sera by 8.2-fold (p<0.001) and 4.5-fold (p<0.01) respectively, compared to sera from rats administered vehicle only. Administration of MPA and L. chuanxiong extract by the oral route resulted in a 5.4 (p<0.001) and 2.3-fold (p=0.07) increase respectively. Our data suggest that PR-responsive reporter gene bioassays can measure bioavailability of compounds, known and unknown, of complex botanicals for hormone replacement therapy. L. chuanxiong extracts exert progestogenic activity in vivo, and may have utility for progesterone-replacement therapy."

          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16650443/

          good review on it
          https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.3109/13880209.2011.576346#d1e665

          HED = 850mg of the extract.
          L. Chuanxiong completely prevented weight gain on a high fat diet. It increases antioxidants and cholesterol conversion into bile acids. Genes related to steroid biosynthesis were also upregulated so I guess that was another way it lowered cholesterol.
          https://iadns.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/fft2.249

          Protective Effect of SFE-CO2 of Ligusticum chuanxiong Hort Against d-Galactose-Induced Injury in the Mouse Liver and Kidney
          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28056664/

          Chuanxiong Rhizoma extracts prevent cholestatic liver injury by targeting H3K9ac-mediated
          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37777319/

          Chuanxiong Rhizoma extracts prevent liver fibrosis via targeting CTCF-c-MYC-H19 pathway
          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38375042/

          Dare to think.

          My X:
          x.com/Metabolicmonstr

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • MauritioM
            Mauritio
            last edited by Mauritio

            "PO [Peppermint oil ]significantly promoted bile and bile acid secretion in rats. It also increased bile acid efflux and decreased cholesterol levels (P < 0.01) in bile. In HepG2 cells the mRNA levels of CYP7A1 and FXR were significantly upregulated after treatment with PO."
            https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1751-2980.2011.00513.x?utm_source=chatgpt.com

            Menthol + Menthone seem to have a dopaminergic effect
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18718482-/
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12686756/

            Menthol has some overlapping effects with progesterone as per this study
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/13819868/
            It also acts as an anaesthetic like progesterone
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11301871/

            Mode of action of peppermint oil and (-)-menthol with respect to 5-HT3 receptor
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21077259/

            "...menthol acts as a noncompetitive antagonist of the 5-HT3 receptor..."
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23965380/

            Menthol decreased milk production ,which hints at an anti prolactin effect and it inhibits mTOR.
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33188562/

            Anti-leukemic effect of menthol, a peppermint compound, on induction of apoptosis and autophagy
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36923503/

            I'd say given these studies, it's worth to try peppermint oil, which can consist of up to 80% menthol + Menthone.

            Dare to think.

            My X:
            x.com/Metabolicmonstr

            alfredoolivasA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • alfredoolivasA
              alfredoolivas @Mauritio
              last edited by alfredoolivas

              @Mauritio Menthol, Camphor, Menthone and Eucalyptus, all are terpenoids known for their "cooling" effect, and are completely saturated- Camphor and Eucalyptus are even saturated cages, similar to Adamantane. Very interesting to me.
              I would love to see if their is some overlap in their origin, structure or effects

              MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • MauritioM
                Mauritio @alfredoolivas
                last edited by Mauritio

                @alfredoolivas yeah very interesting!
                Look at the progesterone like effect of the studies I just edited in.
                If they are indeed saturated molecules that makes an estrogenic effect even less likely .

                Btw trump just brought back menthol cigarettes , so that's good timing 😁

                Dare to think.

                My X:
                x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                alfredoolivasA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • alfredoolivasA
                  alfredoolivas @Mauritio
                  last edited by

                  @Mauritio Peppermint oil is 30-50% menthol, 15-30% menthone and 5-10% eucalyptol. So peppermint oil could be a vehicle to deliver these substances.

                  MauritioM DavidPSD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • MauritioM
                    Mauritio @alfredoolivas
                    last edited by

                    @alfredoolivas yes. I'm just not sure about potential estrogenic or anti DHT effects. But I haven't seen anything conving, that would stop me from consuming it infrequently .

                    Dare to think.

                    My X:
                    x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • DavidPSD
                      DavidPS @alfredoolivas
                      last edited by DavidPS

                      I purposefully stay away from peppermint.

                      Effects of peppermint teas on plasma testosterone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and luteinizing hormone levels and testicular tissue in rats (2004)

                      ““Effective health care depends on self-care” - Ivan Illich, 👀
                      ☂️

                      MauritioM cs3000C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • MauritioM
                        Mauritio @DavidPS
                        last edited by

                        @DavidPS yeah that is the most convincing study i've seen so far the dosage also wasn't excessively high

                        Dare to think.

                        My X:
                        x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                        alfredoolivasA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • alfredoolivasA
                          alfredoolivas @Mauritio
                          last edited by

                          @Mauritio Well progesterone does the same; inhibits LH and FSH, and is therefore anti-androgenic. Unless peppermint oil is estrogenic, it may be a good proxy for progesterone.

                          MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • DavidPSD
                            DavidPS
                            last edited by

                            a938e388-00c8-4bb1-8b8e-f257e00dbc65-image.png

                            ““Effective health care depends on self-care” - Ivan Illich, 👀
                            ☂️

                            cs3000C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • MauritioM
                              Mauritio @alfredoolivas
                              last edited by

                              @alfredoolivas said in Random, interesting studies:

                              @Mauritio Well progesterone does the same; inhibits LH and FSH, and is therefore anti-androgenic. Unless peppermint oil is estrogenic, it may be a good proxy for progesterone.

                              Peppermint actually increased LH /FSH, unlike Progesterone.

                              I want to mention that the amount of menthol you get from tea is about ten times less than you get from the essential oil. and menthol seems to be the deciding metabolic factor here.
                              menthol actually has antiprolactin effects as i posted above so i'm not sure if anti - testosterone effects would be seen with the essential oil which is mostly Menthol.

                              Screenshot_20250126-165925.png

                              Dare to think.

                              My X:
                              x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • cs3000C
                                cs3000 @DavidPS
                                last edited by cs3000

                                This post is deleted!
                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • cs3000C
                                  cs3000 @DavidPS
                                  last edited by cs3000

                                  @DavidPS high amounts 40mg/kg peppermint caused white matter dmg vs 10mg/kg which didnt show it for this dmg , rats https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0378427483901212

                                  But the menthol has some liver toxicity at dopamine doses i think, shows liver protection caused by other things but can cause liver changes https://doi.org/10.1016/0378-4274(83)90120-0

                                  c99b9f92-c87f-4429-8ee2-72bf24dd7d95-image.png

                                  when i tried menthol for the dopamine & temp effect i tried it through the skin , noticed some liver pain after a bit ~1g. which i never get otherwise

                                  DavidPSD MauritioM 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • DavidPSD
                                    DavidPS @cs3000
                                    last edited by DavidPS

                                    @cs3000 - thanks for the additional information.

                                    ““Effective health care depends on self-care” - Ivan Illich, 👀
                                    ☂️

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • MauritioM
                                      Mauritio @cs3000
                                      last edited by Mauritio

                                      @cs3000 thanks interesting . It seems save enough for a short duration or infrequent use.
                                      I also noticed some dopaminergic benefits from nebulizing peppermint oil . I guess the dose there should be very low.

                                      The liver pain might also come from it decreasing peristalsis and thus bile not being excreted fast enough and reabsorbed...

                                      Dare to think.

                                      My X:
                                      x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                                      KvirionK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • KvirionK
                                        Kvirion @Mauritio
                                        last edited by

                                        @Mauritio
                                        It also worth noticing that peppermint is a κ-opioid receptor agonist...

                                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κ-opioid_receptor#Natural_agonists

                                        A little learning is a dangerous thing ;
                                        Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring :
                                        There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
                                        And drinking largely sobers us again.
                                        ~Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism

                                        MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • MauritioM
                                          Mauritio @Kvirion
                                          last edited by

                                          @Kvirion said in Random, interesting studies:

                                          @Mauritio
                                          It also worth noticing that peppermint is a κ-opioid receptor agonist...

                                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Κ-opioid_receptor#Natural_agonists

                                          Uh oh..." KOR activation causes a release in prolactin,[76]"

                                          But then :
                                          Menthol from Mentha piperita Suppresses the Milk Production of Lactating Mammary Epithelial Cells In Vivo and In Vitro
                                          https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33188562/

                                          ....
                                          Doesn't add up .

                                          Dare to think.

                                          My X:
                                          x.com/Metabolicmonstr

                                          alfredoolivasA KvirionK 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • alfredoolivasA
                                            alfredoolivas @Mauritio
                                            last edited by

                                            @Mauritio That might be how it inhibits LH and FSH, and is anti-androgenic, because the opioid receptor inhibits GnRH secretion when activated.

                                            Steroids such as T and DHT, increase opioid receptor expression, which could be a mechanism of how they shut down the HPG axis.

                                            MauritioM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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