Anabology Honey Diet & Protein Restriction
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@RawGoatMilk88 Honey, dates, and cream sounds gross? We have very different taste sir. Also sugar doesnt cause tooth decay if you have a sterile gut/oral microbiome, a good Ca:P ratio, and enough vitamin K2.
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@Honeybee
Those things are great, in the context of a varied diet. By themselves, in large amounts sounds vomit inducing.
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@RawGoatMilk88 True, Im all for abundance and variety. I dont see my self being this restrictive if i were to try a "protein restriction" esque diet. The generic ray peat OJ and Milk diet doesnt seem very appetizing either if thats all your eating haha. Thats why I like making real meals like milk powder pancakes, fruit custards, soups ice cream etc.
The earth speaks to us all, Just listen
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Don't listen to young people about diet. What is he, like 25? At that age' everything works.
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@GreekDemiGod I agree he isnt as credible as someone like Ray who has years of research and experimentation under his belt. But. its also not nescesarily true that young people can feel good eating any diet. Im in ny early 20s and when i was raw vegan I felt sick, fatigued, i lost my libido, and my muscle mass. I had anxiety attacks induced from hypoglycemia and felt terrible.
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Why do you think @haidut 's BCAA + Tyrosine 2013 experiment worked then?
He claimed that his BPM reached over 100 and body temp of 39 C by consuming 2mg cypro +3500 mg BCAA and 1500 mg Tyrosine + Goat milk protein + Gelatin.
If BCAA were truly anti-metabolic, what can explain that?
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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@jamezb46 Curious if he would be able to produce the same effect with cypro + tyrosene + gelatin but no BCAAs. Considering how many factors there were im not fully convinced the BCAAs were responsible for the metabolism increase although in intrigued.
The earth speaks to us all, Just listen
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@GreekDemiGod said in Anabology Honey Diet & Protein Restriction:
Don't listen to young people about diet. What is he, like 25? At that age' everything works.
my thoughts exactly. Anyone under 30 is pretty adaptable. -
@Serotoninskeptic said in Anabology Honey Diet & Protein Restriction:
Im interested in trying this out but wondering your takes on it.
Saw this a few months back and decided to try a version of it.
My thought is that it requires too much consumption. It may be better to cycle between days with night-time protein and days with morning protein/fat. Granted I don't make time for elaborate breakfast and usually have coffee / fruit anyways. But, given two weekend days and five workdays, I think most people could see this as a format that could be cyclical.
I had coffee/sugar/milk, dates, mandarin oranges in the morning; cheese, occasional bread, Coke, apples for lunch; potatoes/meatloaf and/or milk for dinner. It "works" pretty well.
However, I think my blood sugar was a little too high a few times. I also think it is hacking into the metabolism sort of like cold air intake on an engine...basically just throwing fuel on a fire. I think steady is what's sustainable. I'm not mistaking steady for pufa-ridden, inflamed, depressed metabolism either because that is not good "steady."
In other words I probably have slower metabolism in general though I've been trying to eat low-pufa Peaty stuff for the last few years. I think I read somewhere that more glucose and sugar means you need to have more nutrients available to be absorbed. So it seems natural that it's better to do some like 70/30 carb to fat or carb to protein in meals too.
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@Serotoninskeptic I've been running this for the past few weeks and really been feeling the positive effects of protein restriction. I think it's important to note that eating only glucose/fructose upregulates FGF21 expression via isoleucine restriction, and such high serum fructose reduces phosphate levels by 30-50% according to this study.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11036473/
so getting super high dietary calcium as many peaters recommend is probably less necessary.an unexpected result was that I find myself urinating much less, and when I do, I have very little foaming, which would probably be expected when consuming low protein. I will admit that the fasting portion of the diet is pretty brutal, especially coming from drinking milk by the quart, but i think you'd get the same antiinflammation and metabolism-boosting effects, just without the weight loss omitting it.
It's also notable that my nasal passages are much less swollen, for my whole life I've only been able to breathe through one nostril at a time but now I can breathe through both almost all day, but with my last meal, they swell up again.
you should try it out and see for yourself!
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@samson said in Anabology Honey Diet & Protein Restriction:
an unexpected result was that I find myself urinating much less, and when I do, I have very little foaming, which would probably be expected when consuming low protein. I will admit that the fasting portion of the diet is pretty brutal, especially coming from drinking milk by the quart, but i think you'd get the same anti-inflammation and metabolism-boosting effects, just without the weight loss omitting it.
I noticed slightly more frequent urination, but I was plenty hydrated. I second your comment on clear breathing - it just seems to go with getting a big dose of energy from the fruits and sugar.
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Well if you read the original thread, he did get a metabolism increase from cypro + BCAA + tyrosine (no gelatin or goat milk)
So, my claim here is not that BCAA is necessarily metabolism boosting (though @haidut has evidence they increase maximum lifespan) but that itâs not metabolism hindering, which I thought is a refutation to @anabology âs point.
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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@jamezb46 not sure where anabology got to isoleucine specifically actually. this study about fgf21 says that they were able to replicate the metabolism-boosting effect of restricting a myriad of individual amino acids.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8761941/ -
@samson I also wonder if itâs not wiser to follow some widely established dietary principles rather than hyper focusing on FGF 21.
I also wonder whether FGF 21 is up-regulated when protein (or whatever the body uses as a proxy thereof, perhaps isoleucine) is scarce in the diet because the body is trying to get the organism to eat more to satisfy its needs for isoleucine.
I think we can therefore try to distinguish between permissive increases in metabolism and the body not permitting the metabolism to decrease.
The former would be an increase in metabolism because the body senses that it can âaffordâ to do so because of a plenitude of resources and a feeling of safety or dominance.
The latter would be when the body recognizes some kind of danger, necessity, or need, the response to which must be an increased metabolism.
For example, good sleep, caloric surplus, warm temperatures, would all create permissive increases in metabolism.
Whereas danger (increased adrenaline) would cause the body to not let the metabolic rate drop because of some need it thinks it must fulfill.
When it comes to restricting isoleucine, Iâm inclined to say that the body increases the metabolic rate in an effort to eat more isoleucine-poor food (the food you have been eating) in order to get enough protein.
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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@jamezb46 seems plausible from an evolution standpoint, but not necessarily bad right? just because there's an adaptive response doesn't make it harmful unless proven otherwise.
I do think there are lots of factors for why a healthy human would only eat fruit for large swaths of the day, and gorge on fat and meat at night, if that's the paradigm we're thinking in, however.
also, it's not like you are totally deprived of amino acids during the sugar phase, transamination and amination both synthesize amino acids from keto acids in fruit, with the added benefit of lowering serum ammonia levels through (berries, citrus, pineapples all have precursors to α-ketoglutarate, which is bound to NH3 thus reducing amino levels)
I lift pretty religiously and haven't seen any reduction in strength, or slowing of progress for that matter, despite my weight dropping, so no catabolic action from protein fasting. pretty cool to be able to recomp as an intermediate actually
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Interesting. So your numbers in the gym stayed the same? I wonder if you could actually get stronger on such a diet? Perhaps adding in some AAS (oral, mild) would help to answer the question as to whether with AAS you need more or less protein to build muscle.
I think that the idea we ate meat later in the day and fruit earlier is also plausible for a number of reasons. One, fruit would have been easier to find to start the day (literally just hangs there lol).
Two, animals humans like to hunt like deer and others are more active later in the day.
Three, if we got a kill, we would have to travel back to camp to cook it and share it with others. Or, if we were traveling, we would probably have waited until we stopped for the night to eat it.
I also agree that just because something is adaptive, that doesnât mean it should be avoided. For example, caffeine is probably there as a natural fungicide and a toxin to insects or whatever else wants to eat the part of the plant that contains it. Thereâs some discussion about how the plant might use caffeine to give bugs an âenergy boostâ but I think thatâs the wrong way of thinking about it. Itâs probably for self-defense and thatâs all from the plants POV.
But obviously caffeine has known benefits.
