Dht, testosterone pre workout...
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@pannacottas topical or oral? Thanks
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@BeamsOfEnergy I did both, i think oral was more immediate
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@pannacottas thank you
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been on 10 mg anavar and 6 mg enclo for 2 weeks, lifting feels amazing and recovery is much faster. noticed slight appetite suppression mayb cos overweight and fat is finally being mobilised from the cells due to anavars effect on cortisol and beta oxidation.
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@thyroidchor27 what's the enclo for
why not use dbol or halo
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@the_black_jew reduce amount of suppression from the var
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@thyroidchor27 how you getting on with anavar?
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@thyroidchor27 dbol has little supression , only of testosterone but not lh fsh overall
what is anavar effect on cortisol
apparently dbol increases cortisol -
@sushi_is_cringe Testosterone falling is worse than LH and FSH falling. It is a sign that the gonads aren't working properly, whereas LH and FSH falling are simply a sign that the pituitary detects there is too many androgens.
Anavar blocks cortisol receptor transcription, via activating the androgen receptor. Androgens in general are antagonistic to cortisol, via activating the androgen receptor. D-Bol is likely anti-catabolic too, despite increasing cortisol levels. Only trenbolone, and M-Tren, directly binds to and blocks the glucocorticoid receptor as far as I know.
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@alfredoolivas hmmmm... interdasting.... I think the point is that dbol is easy to recover from cause lh fsh remains high. so no pct needed for 4-6 week cycles, just stop taking dbol. I imagine with enough pregnenolone recovery would be even easier.
I am told dbol and halotestin are similar in this regard
idk about anavar in this regard but I know it's not recommended because it can cause hair shedding.
the hair safe steroids I am told of are nandrolone (especially deca because longer ester makes it more hair safe) , dbol, and halo. of those, I think I read that dbol and halo aren't really requiring pct.
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@alfredoolivas Pretty sure that fluoxymesterone (Halotestin) increases cortisol fairly strongly despite being a strong androgen.
In time there is life but no knowledge; outside time there is knowledge but no life
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Maybe cyproheptadine could help you out if apetite remains an issue
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@sushi_is_cringe If you are interested in cycling D-Bol/methandienone, this study is helpful; it certainly seems possible to not have to do no PCT afterwards yes. However, in this study low doses of D-Bol were used.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00365517709100649
"The effects of a one-month course of treatment with a p͟o͟t͟e͟n͟t͟ anabolic steroid, methandienone (5 and 10 mg daily), and a very weak androgen and hormone precursor, dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS, 20 and 40 mg daily) and placebo on plasma testosterone, LH and FSH levels, red cell volume and red cell 2,3-diphosphoglycerate (2,3-DPG) concentration in endurance sportsmen were studied using a double-blind test system. A highly significant decrease in mean plasma testosterone was observed after the 5 and 10 mg methandienone regimen (66 and 73%). Treatment with 40 mg of DHEAS decreased mean testosterone levels by 41% (not statistically significant). P͟r͟e͟-͟t͟e͟s͟t͟ ͟t͟e͟s͟t͟o͟s͟t͟e͟r͟o͟n͟e͟ ͟l͟e͟v͟e͟l͟s͟ ͟w͟e͟r͟e͟ ͟r͟e͟a͟t͟t͟a͟i͟n͟e͟d͟ ͟a͟b͟o͟u͟t͟ ͟1͟0͟ ͟d͟a͟y͟s͟ ͟a͟f͟t͟e͟r͟ ͟t͟h͟e͟ ͟e͟n͟d͟ ͟o͟f͟ ͟t͟h͟e͟ ͟t͟r͟e͟a͟t͟m͟e͟n͟t͟ ͟p͟e͟r͟i͟o͟d͟ ͟w͟i͟t͟h͟ ͟t͟h͟e͟ ͟h͟i͟g͟h͟e͟r͟ ͟d͟o͟s͟e͟s͟ ͟o͟f͟ ͟b͟o͟t͟h͟ ͟c͟o͟m͟p͟o͟u͟n͟d͟s͟, while 2–6 weeks afterwards a significant over-compensation in mean plasma testosterone levels was observed."
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@jamezb46 I was talking about blocking cortisol at the receptor level. Yes, I expect many of them to increase cortisol due to 11 beta HSD 2 inhibition and AcTH being release, but overall, they are all anti-catabolic; fluoxymesterone actually binds to and antagonises the glucocorticoid receptor, amongst other anti-glucocorticoid mechanisms it may have.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/173192/
"The synthetic androgen fluoxymesterone and the hormone testosterone displayed Ki values of 7.5 X 10(-6) M and 1 X 10(-5) M, respectively, for the inhibition of [3H]dexamethasone binding in muscle cytosol. On the basis of competition experiments it is postulated that interaction of androgens with glucocorticoid receptors prevents the binding of glucocorticoids and might be responsible in part for the anabolic effects of pharmacologic doses of androgens in muscle."
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just learned halo doesnt lower testosterone. my friend says 4-6 week cycles with 7-10 days off between is totally fine for dbol or halo solo and reccomends these over nandrolone now. the drawback is potential appetite supression from orals
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@alfredoolivas apparently even 60mg per day dbol is ok
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@sushi_is_cringe Okay but Halostestin and DBol are extremely liver toxic right? You have to take proper time off, blood work and recovery to make sure your liver is okay. It seems silly to only care so much about LH and FSH and your gonads, and then ignore their toxic effects in other organs.
Furthermore, they all inhibit testosterone synthesis whilst you are on them, so testosterone derived neurosteroids such as 3a-Androstanediol and Androsterone will be depleted if you run orals by themselves.
And not to mention, the mental effects could potentially be very unpleasant and even affect your life negatively.
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@alfredoolivas no theres no liver toxicity even in high doses used for 2 years straight in medicine the dose is 200mg cant remember if this is halo or dbol
secondly halo doesnt lower test
thirdly mostly mood issue is mild euphoria
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@sushi_is_cringe Halo does lower test, and it's crazy to say there is no risks of mental issues, but I actually investigated the liver side effects of Dianabol, and you may have a point.
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@sushi_is_cringe
Yes, I think this is right regarding dbol and halo, but there’s some complications. Because halo is expensive to make, you have to be quite sure that what you’re getting is real halo because there’s a higher chance it’s being faked.
And dbol is probably good at 10-20 mg day but there’s the risk of increased BP and the methyl estradiol it produces is known to be harmful. It might not be an issue at a low dose but something to keep in mind.
There are also studies showing that Anavar is non-suppressive at 20mg/day. The same pattern with Dbol in the study I posted before: LH, FSH slightly decrease, testosterone decreases slightly, liver enzymes not significant affected.
Also, if dbol has this safety profile then why use it instead of tbol, which is basically the same thing but with zero estrogen conversion. I guess price if that’s an issue because dbol is generally cheaper but I’d just rather go with tbol.
