Thyroid Therapy for Chronic Digestive Issues

JulofEnoch

5 days ago, I added T4 into the protocol, at 25mcgs nightly, increasing my total daily dose to 25mcgs T3/25mcgs T4

What is your thought behind the 1:1 ratio? I can see as a stimulatory dose for a serious hypothyroidism, though I don't know if you'd count as such. The T4 may be converted quickly into T3, so your 1:1 is like taking a larger dose of T3, by itself. This is probably behind your rapid temp increase. I would suggest shifting to a 1:3 or 1:4 dosage.

From my understanding, 25mcgs of T3 and equivalent T4 would be about 1.25 grains(1 gr of T3 and 1/4 gr from T4). This might give you some perspective on how your T3 and T4 doses are working out in the grains.

My thought here is that addressing chronic issues resulting from years of hypothyroidism will take time—likely several months—before I experience significant improvement.

I believe Barnes said that one should supplement for, at least, one month with thyroid before coming to any conclusions.

I've tried to cut out caffeine and nicotine to assess my response to thyroid without conflicting variables, though I still use dipping tobacco and drink coffee on occasion (mainly to stimulate BMs)

The coffee is probably fine to take and I would support restricting tobacco as much as possible.

Why the gynecomastia? I'm not sure. It could be that thyroid supplementation has elevated levels of testosterone, which is then aromatizing and causing estrogenic symptoms.

Entirely possible, I would give it time to normalize and, if possible, consider more zinc and iodine foods. Have you tested your cholesterol?

banquos-ghost

@JulofEnoch

I'd like to arrive at a long-term T3:T4 dosage of about 1:3, but started with T3 monotherapy to test my responsiveness to thyroid in general. After confirming that I can tolerate it, my plan was to gradually add in T4 over several weeks (1:0, 1:1, 1:2, 1:3), until I reach a more sustainable combo-therapy dosage. While I read Barnes and agree with much of what he said, I diverted from his advice on this question of starting with combo- versus monotherapy, but I think his advice and yours hold in the long term. Would you advise switching immediately to 1:3 ratio, and at what dosage is advisable? Again, at this dosage I've only experienced the occasional episode of mild hyperthyroidism.

As I mentioned in my #2 update, the gynecomastia is beginning to normalize. Over the years, my endocrine system has been very responsive to exogenous anything (5ARIs, progesterone, pregnenolone, etc.), so this estrogenic response to thyroid is not unexpected. It is not very concerning, but I thought I'd mention it for other men experiencing the same thing. As you recommend, I'll increase my intake of oysters and seafood to see if this improves, though it seems to improve by the day.

JulofEnoch

@banquos-ghost

I'd like to arrive at a long-term T3:T4 dosage of about 1:3, but started with T3 monotherapy to test my responsiveness to thyroid in general. After confirming that I can tolerate it, my plan was to gradually add in T4 over several weeks (1:0, 1:1, 1:2, 1:3), until I reach a more sustainable combo-therapy dosage. While I read Barnes and agree with much of what he said, I diverted from his advice on this question of starting with combo- versus monotherapy, but I think his advice and yours hold in the long term.

I understand your approach. I know that it's nitpicky but by "several weeks" do you mean every two or three? I would see no issues with that, especially if you're considering either equal dosing(1.25gr as you're doing rn) or slightly modified(up or down) with more T4 to T3.

Would you advise switching immediately to 1:3 ratio, and at what dosage is advisable? Again, at this dosage I've only experienced the occasional episode of mild hyperthyroidism.

My best advice would be being around 1gr +/- 0.25gr. I don't see an issue with gradually moving towards 1:3 over several weeks. If you're getting an occasional hyper episode, then it's probably the low T4 converting quickly to T3, making your T3 doses larger than on paper.

As you recommend, I'll increase my intake of oysters and seafood to see if this improves, though it seems to improve by the day.

Awaiting your next update.

banquos-ghost

@JulofEnoch

Specificity in discussions like this is good! So far, I've changed my protocol every two weeks. I think this has given me ample time to adjust to the new ratio and dosage, and assess my body's response.

With your feedback in mind, the plan is to stick with gradually increasing the T4 dosage, pulling back if any protocol change suddenly leads to daily episodes of hyperthyroidism.

I'll continue to update this log with my progress.

Your advice is much appreciated!

GreekDemiGod

@CO3 said in Thyroid Therapy for Chronic Digestive Issues:

@banquos-ghost Look up what Ray had to say about iodine supplementation. Don't worry about supplementing it. If for some reason you want to, you can use iodized salt, but again, that has thyroid suppressive effects. The idea of using iodine to cure thyroid dysfunction is a woefully archaic thing, from when people in mountainous areas would develop goiters due to never getting any amount in their diet.

Good luck!

What Iodine sources do you have in your diet?
I stopped using iodised salt for years, resumed using it again after reading about its role in thyroid health.
We don’t need much iodine, but iodine deficiency can exist

JulofEnoch

@banquos-ghost

If you feel that two weeks allows you to feel changes(or at the very least, no negatives), then keep on keeping on.

I'll continue to update this log with my progress. Your advice is much appreciated!

Best of luck

CO3

@GreekDemiGod said in Thyroid Therapy for Chronic Digestive Issues:

What Iodine sources do you have in your diet?

I eat seafood more than once a month. Done. All the iodine you need and then some.

bubble

I would definitely consider trying thiamine B1. Potentially in high dose. It was the only thing to help my debilitating digestion and it helped near instantly after years of suffering. It could be worth a try

banquos-ghost

@bubble Last year I tried very high dose thiamine HCl (3g+/day) to no effect. On this forum and Twitter I've read many success stories, but it proved ineffective for my condition.

onliest

@CO3 Yep this is called the Wolf-Chaikoff effect.

onliest

@banquos-ghost I've gone high thiamine HCL and subutiamine too with little effects. I want to try one of the other forms.

banquos-ghost

Update #3 on thyroid therapy:

I'm staying at 25 mcg T3 and 50 mcg T4 for now, as work and family activities are too overwhelming this week to worry about adjusting the dosage and monitoring my response.

In Update #4, I'll provide a more comprehensive overview of my experience so far. For this one, I only wanted to share recent endocrine bloodwork results after about 6 weeks of T3/T4 combination therapy (all previous bloodwork data are in this thread):

TSH: 0.456 uIU/mL (Ref: 0.450-4.500)
T4, Free: 0.98 ng/dL (Ref: 0.82-1.77)
T3, Free: 4 pg/mL (Ref: 2-4.4)
Cholesterol, Total: 197 mg/dL (Ref: 100-199)
HDL Cholesterol: 55 mg/dL (Ref: >39)
LDL Chol Calc : 133 mg/dL (Ref: 0-99)
Dihydrotestosterone: 51 ng/dL (Ref: 30-85)
DHT, Free: 3.21 pg/mL (Ref: 2.30-11.60)
FSH: 1.2 mIU/mL (Ref: 1.5-12.4)
Testosterone: 748 ng/dL (Ref: 264-916)
Free Testosterone (Direct): 221 ng/mL (Ref: 109-353)
DHEA-Sulfate, Prolactin, Estradiol, and LH were all in range

GreekDemiGod

@banquos-ghost see my post in the other thread. Your T4:T3 ratio of 2:1 is way too low and it’s what causing the low ft4. You have to add more T4 and lower T3.
How do you feel with the current blood tests?

banquos-ghost

Update #4 on thyroid therapy:

Protocol at 25 mcgs T3 / 50 mcgs T4, taking T3/T4 in morning and evening, only T3 during the day.
Sleep has improved tremendously. For the first time in well over a decade, I can sleep soundly through the night, for 6-8 hours, without waking to urinate. As a result, I'm not as fatigued as I was before treatment.
BBT is consistently at or above 97.8 degrees Fahrenheit, unless experiencing an hypothermic adrenaline spike from digestive issues
PR is at 70-80 BPM and stable, unless (again) experiencing adrenaline issues.
Lightheadedness and fainting are gone. I can now stand up without reaching for the wall to stabilize myself.
Mood has improved dramatically. Ambition and drive has been mostly restored, which were all but gone before treatment.
Appetite is much higher. On most days I can eat enough to satiate it without exacerbating digestive issues.
Gyno was transient. Maybe once a week I'll notice slight nipple tenderness. At this frequency, it's not concerning.
I'm pleased with the bloodwork results I pasted earlier.

As you may gather from the above, thyroid therapy has been a success; in almost all areas it could directly improve my health, it has. However, I think it has taken me about as far as it can. No changes have been observed in my digestive health. All digestive symptoms I dealt with at the start—severe bloating, indigestion, oral thrush, stool biofilm, cognitive impairment—still persist. I think that thyroid can only do much on its own to resolve chronic intestinal overgrowths, or whatever it is I'm dealing with.

That is not to say that I'll discontinue treatment; in fact, I see no reason at all to discontinue, as I've not experienced any real side effects. Instead, I'll likely continue at this dosage for the foreseeable future. I hope that being euthyroidic will improve my immune system resilience as I begin another self-treatment protocol for these digestive issues. I'm very satisfied with this experience over the last three months, and grateful for the insights you all have provided.

I'll update the forum either in this thread or another with the progress I make on resolving my other issues.

@GreekDemiGod Per my above comments, I feel that thyroid treatment has taken me as far as it can. Despite the low fT4, I feel mostly euthyroidic at this dosage and frequency.

GreekDemiGod

@banquos-ghost Have you done more recent blood work?

banquos-ghost

@GreekDemiGod The plan is to retest thyroid levels (fT3, fT4, TSH) every couple months. I'll continue to post those results here.

lacylaine

@JulofEnoch
I agree with you regarding the one-month trial for thyroid change. I am slowly getting my thyroid dialed in and my eyebrows are slowly growing back. But I wait for a full month before decided on changes in dosage.

FYI: I am taking 50mcg Levothyroxine daily (at midnight), plus 3 drops Tyronene in AM, dessicated thyroid in the afternoon and 2 drops Tyronene at 4-5PM. (I have no thyroid.)

secondkelping

@banquos-ghost I noticed the same. So far coconut oil, sauteed mushrooms, Lapodin, and Kuinone have done the most for me digestively. Also, B6. In this order. This is on top of taking thyroid daily.

LucH

@onliest said in Thyroid Therapy for Chronic Digestive Issues:

I've gone high thiamine HCL and subutiamine too with little effects. I want to try one of the other forms.

You won't reach passive absorption with High dose thiamine HCL. a combo between HCL and PLP, progressively and with staples are needed.
See Allil overtone for more information or I can give a link (with my summary) if someone finds it easier to understand / or have no time / no energy enough to spend
How to Apply High-Dose Thiamine Protocols in Clinical Practice: Part 2
Practical Guidance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZUzS_xP9A
EONutrition – Elliot OVERTON (nutritionist) (Video multiplex)

wester130

tried digestive bitters?

I am not sure why thyroid hormone would magically solve digestion