Glucose loading cures everything?
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Update:
As I'm continueing with P5P 25mg with every glucose serving, I've come to notice a surge in folate requirements and have since added 3x 1mg methyl-folate every day.
(I've also come to notice a significant surge in daily protein cravings. Which seems fair given P5P's crucial role in protein tolerability and utilization).I've found this 1976 bit of info.
These are some serious, real clinical findings from back then. Regarding the required doses there was certainly an issue from using folic acid (clogging up the pathways) instead of using folinic acid or folate.
Nevertheless, there may be a need to cast far aside the Peatarian cancer-focused condemnation of methyl groups and methylfolate when it comes to necessary restoration. There's probably implications of very high gradients being needed to pass the necessary amounts through an impaired intestinal barrier. Which seems to improve in a significant share of patients. Perhaps the others who missed out on improvements needed the glucose, B1 or P5P along with it?
The blood--brain-barrier appears to be narrowly focused on the cerebral folate receptor-a (FR-a) which can be inhibited from birth (genetically) or by autoimmune events. Depleted liver folate stores in chronic disease states, especially those of the liver, would be more widespread.There's an under-appreciated link between folate and
- carbohydrate tolerability,
- unrecognized/atypical malabsorption by jejunal villous atrophy shown as a long-standing gastrointestinal disease usually only diagnosed as "functional", "psychosomatic", "spasmodic colitis", "irritable colon" or similar.
- depression or an especially wide range of concurrently afflicting neuropsychiatric symptoms.
Folate deficiency and neurological disease
"The classical triad of steatorrhea, abnormal jejunal biopsy and abnormal d-xylose
absorption test (30) is replaced in our cases by another triad,
i.e. constipation, abnormal jejunal biopsy andabnormal d-xylose absorption (15, 23).
However, every patient met at least one of the criteria of disturbed
absorption. In 14 cases there-was a flat glucose and lactose
tolerance curve. In 6 patients on being treated for 6 months
with folic acid, the curves became normal. In three other
patients folate deficiency was accompanied by a glucose
tolerance curve suggestive of hyperactive hypoglycemia;
after 7 and 12 months of folic acid treatment the biological
syndrome of hyperactive hypoglycemia disappeared in two
of them, subsided in the remaining one. This possible cor-
relation between carbohydrate and folate metabolism seems
to be of special interest as a stimulus to further research,
In this respect a 42 year old woman with intolerance of
dietary carbohydrate and mild anemia has been reported as
having elevated urinary formiminoglutamate (FIGLU) ex-
cretion: she improved with combined folate therapy and a
reduction in dietary carbohydrate (31)""It is essential to stress that in all cases from this group
small amounts of folic acid (5 to 10 mg daily) were not
effective; only 30-40 mg of folic acid by mouth daily
(patients without jejunal atrophy) or 20-30 mg by mouth
and 15 mg parenterally daily in (15 patients with a subtotal
or partial jejunal atrophy) were effective. The first beneficial
therapeutical responses could be observed only after
treatment for three or four weeks in hospital, with regular
monitoring of plasma BIZ, hematologic parameters and
clinical reevaluation." -
C CrumblingCookie referenced this topic on
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@CrumblingCookie that is a huge dose of folate.
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@Ecstatic_Hamster before you know it the experimenters will have engineered a complete beef liver from synthetics for maximum scientific health
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@Ecstatic_Hamster said:
that is a huge dose of folate.
Mind-bogglingly huge!
From what I could read, neuropsychiatric improvements from restoring cerebral folate sufficiency is a veeeeeery slow and a gradual process.
In other cases where 15mg folic acid daily was used, improvements only became evident 9 months later. With further, significant improvements 18 months later. And things still improving 39 months later.
And many of those reported cases really weren't attributable to genetics but were all secondary due to long-standing "innocuous" conditions like poor diet, alcoholism, hepatic diseases.
Crazy.For me, that's really essential to know that a finding of low serum folate does not become resolved after a few weeks of supplementation and a good follow-up serum folate lab. I've had some low serum levels stretched over several years in the past. Which I wrongly considered over and sufficiently dealt with.
The 3x 1mg folate makes me feel more sleepy - similiar to when I started (or raised) the glucose servings except now it's only in the mornings up to the early afternoons and not all day. Apart from that I notice no drawbacks.
Whereas without P5P and glucose I remember very well that any large amount of folate made me feel weirded-out and uncomfortably light-headed.Overall, this fosters my suspected trajectory: That taking dextrose by itself is not enough to fix everything but that it is a crucial element to regeneration and also demands reevaluation of previously tried measures and supplements to finally unfurl their eluded benefits.
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Has Dr. Stevens treated anyone with severe autism? A family member of mine is 31, severely autistic, non verbal and sometimes bangs his head, necessitating a helmet at times. He is extremely sensitive to many things, his mother has given up on any detox, the reactions to even some B vitamins can be extreme. I haven't read Dr. Stevens book, but am wondering if glucose could help someone like him or if it could trigger too much detox. He is having trouble walking at this point and his mother is losing hope.
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@Sippy I don't know. But I would probably try it. Dr. Stephens may actually reinforce this, who knows, because he has used it apparently with people who had all sorts of brain issues. He really points to all problems as originating in the brain, resulting in hyperglycolysis, resulting in throttling of glucose, resulting in...all sorts of mental illness and issues. So yeah. Yeah. And I can't see how it would cause harm.
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@Sippy said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Has Dr. Stevens treated anyone with severe autism? A family member of mine is 31, severely autistic, non verbal and sometimes bangs his head, necessitating a helmet at times. He is extremely sensitive to many things, his mother has given up on any detox, the reactions to even some B vitamins can be extreme. I haven't read Dr. Stevens book, but am wondering if glucose could help someone like him or if it could trigger too much detox. He is having trouble walking at this point and his mother is losing hope.
It's definitely worth a try.
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@Sippy
Short answer: Yes, i think it can be helpful.Longer musing: I think people who are neurodivergent and already have issues with neurotransmitters are at higher risk for trouble with the Itaconate shunt, because it causes the GABA shunt, which leads to neurotransmitters being used for ATP instead of what they're supposed to be used for.
There's also a strange phenomenon with autism where people have seen symptoms disappear when they have a fever. If symptoms disappear when the Itaconate shunt is not actived (the fever may indicate the adaptive immune system is activated), maybe debilitating autism is "just" another manifestation (one of many) of the Itaconate shunt (the innate immune system not letting the adaptive immune system do it's job).
(Edit: Actually not sure that a fever may indicate the adaptive immune system is activated; I just very rarely have a fever since my Itaconate shunt issues started - and on the rare occasion I have a fever I've experienced certain symptoms get better. Here's an article about the phenomenon: https://news.mit.edu/2024/understanding-why-autism-symptoms-sometimes-improve-amid-fever-0523)
Hope they can find some relief, it sounds challenging.
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@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Here's an article about the phenomenon: https://news.mit.edu/2024/understanding-why-autism-symptoms-sometimes-improve-amid-fever-0523
"developmentally determined" hmm
@ThinPicking said in Propranolol, agression & autism:
Maybe Wakefield was right
@sippy have a read of that thread and the blog link. After GPs insight there.
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C CrumblingCookie referenced this topic
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This post is deleted! -
Bumping this thread. I want to see MORE!
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@Kilgore welcome!
Thanks for the nudge, I've been meaning to share a bit. I'll try to soon, but I'm still having reactivations and immune responses - which I think is positive, but it's quite exhausting.
Is there anything in particular you'd like to know?
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I also would love to see more. Very interesting.
My experience with dextrose is a definite stabilization of mood and euphoria, typically I need 50g to feel this and 50g sugar does the same in terms of direction of effect, but not strength.
