What to do as a giga fatty?
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@Androsclerozat Yes, but did he deny calories make you fat?
Whatever Ray Peat said doesn't change the reality that your body has a calorie amount (TDEE/maintenance level) that will keep you in equilibrium. If you go above you gain weight, if you go below you lose weight. It's easily observable scientific fact that you can test yourself, as millions and millions and millions of people have already done including myself.
I think the reason a lot of "Peaters" are fat is because they saw him make some outrageous statements about high caloric intake, and they automatically think that means calories are a myth as far as fat gain. I take what Peat said about eating 9000 calories or whatever it was with a huge grain of salt, short of dismissing it.
The man was not a god and everything he said should be questioned, unless this is a cult. I am smart enough to know that some of what he said may be inaccurate, while the bulk of it was probably fairly accurate or spot on. I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater because I think one thing he said is questionable. No one gets everything right 100% of the time.
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@Hearthfire True, but my point was that Calories in calories out is controlled by the thyroid hormone and a website that calculates your needed calories doesn't make sense since a hypothyroid person will waste food at a higher rate, which results in slower metabolism.
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DHT and t3
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I've long discarded CICO. A waste of time. The body knows. Trusts its wisdom to say enough. A body in balance and well-regulated internally stops eating when it is full. It does not get hungry in between the 3 meals it gets in a day. It has energy during daytime and it sleeps soundly at night. It does not get overweight nor underweight. And burns enough calories internally it does not need much exercise to stay trim and fit.
Only in highly educated circles do people lose sight of common sense and have to waste their time measuring calories like they have nothing else to do. Being highly educated only guarantees you get an expensive piece of paper to show credulous people you know something more than they do.
If you have to count calories, then you cant possibly be healthy at all.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag You've discarded something that's easily testable? And has been done by billions of people? lol, ok.
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@Hearthfire it's not black and white.
A person with good thyroid function will keep weight at 2500 calories (he burns more because he produces more heat)
An hypothyroid will keep at 1500 calories
Both of them will lose weight at 1000 calories, in this case CICO applies, but the 2500 guy will lose fat at a faster rate.
If they will eat 2000 calories, the high thyroid will lose weight and the hypothyroid will gain weight.It's an example.
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You mean people around the world do what educated and highly credentialed people do? The billions of people who only managed to get fat because they followed the exalting example of US pharma and its education arm in the Ivy League?
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@Him weight training, build muscle to increase your metabolism. This helped me change my body composition.
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Thyroid/metabolism doesn't change things nearly as much as people think as far as calories burned...Sorry, don't care what Ray said about it. There's a difference, but it's small. Bodybuilding community has irrefutably proved this. This is why so many Peaters are getting fat. They believed everything that was said about magically consuming 9000 calories and not gaining weight. Sorry, but you need to throw that out, because it was grossly exaggerated.
Everyone has different body composition (muscle and fat), activity levels, height, etc, This is why you calculate a TDEE, and then TEST it. Work out and diet for 2 weeks. Weigh yourself EVERY day. If your weight doesn't go down, adjust calorie intake a bit, test again. If your TDEE calculation was WAY off, you lied when inputting info.
Obese people are not incapable of losing weight because of thyroid function. That's a myth and an excuse they have latched onto, probably given to them by retarded doctors. They ABSOLUTELY can lose weight, they're just lazy and won't stop eating. Everyone can lose weight. There's not a single human on earth who is incapable of losing weight. Point one out to me.
This is an easily testable thing, you can confirm for yourself within a week or two (more time is usually better)
If you haven't done this, or deny that it works, you're either fat or already skinny and never needed to. Simple as.
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@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
I've long discarded CICO. A waste of time. The body knows. Trusts its wisdom to say enough. A body in balance and well-regulated internally stops eating when it is full. It does not get hungry in between the 3 meals it gets in a day. It has energy during daytime and it sleeps soundly at night. It does not get overweight nor underweight. And burns enough calories internally it does not need much exercise to stay trim and fit.
Only in highly educated circles do people lose sight of common sense and have to waste their time measuring calories like they have nothing else to do. Being highly educated only guarantees you get an expensive piece of paper to show credulous people you know something more than they do.
If you have to count calories, then you cant possibly be healthy at all.
I so agree. CICO is a big disappointment because the weight will always come back. Your body hates to starve. It hates deprivation. It will fight you forever after you’ve lost the weight. Being kind to one’s body, (meaning eat enough calories and the right kind of calories) will serve you in a superior way.
I wish I had known this in my 20’s. I was forever starving myself trying to be an imaginary perfect size. I wasn’t even over weight. But starving oneself catches up to you as you get older and your screwed up metabolism is the price you pay.
Personally, and this is big for me, I’ve reached a point where I can eat a lot more calories now and not gain weight. That was unheard of before for me. And now my body temperature stays elevated. Just by nourishing my body. And by eating the RIGHT saturated fat.
Avoid PUFAS like the plague. They are in everything. Science is catching up to Ray Peat. They are finding now that PUFAS are implicated in cancer. And other maladies.
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This post is deleted! -
@Hearthfire said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
Thyroid/metabolism doesn't change things nearly as much as people think as far as calories burned...Sorry, don't care what Ray said about it. There's a difference, but it's small. Bodybuilding community has irrefutably proved this. This is why so many Peaters are getting fat. They believed everything that was said about magically consuming 9000 calories and not gaining weight. Sorry, but you need to throw that out, because it was grossly exaggerated.
Everyone has different body composition (muscle and fat), activity levels, height, etc, This is why you calculate a TDEE, and then TEST it. Work out and diet for 2 weeks. Weigh yourself EVERY day. If your weight doesn't go down, adjust calorie intake a bit, test again. If your TDEE calculation was WAY off, you lied when inputting info.
Obese people are not incapable of losing weight because of thyroid function. That's a myth and an excuse they have latched onto, probably given to them by retarded doctors. They ABSOLUTELY can lose weight, they're just lazy and won't stop eating. Everyone can lose weight. There's not a single human on earth who is incapable of losing weight. Point one out to me.
This is an easily testable thing, you can confirm for yourself within a week or two (more time is usually better)
If you haven't done this, or deny that it works, you're either fat or already skinny and never needed to. Simple as.
This!
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@Him My anecdote is that inflammation, even really minor things like specific food additives, are what prevent me from being able to lose weight. If I have a very strict diet (for me, even avoiding vegetarian cheese enzymes and only having annimal rennet cheese) then I suddenly start losing weight.
Edit: I imagine a lot of the weight I do lose when I am being strict is from water weight, but I'm sure losing the water weight helps a lot anyway.
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@Amethyst said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
I've long discarded CICO. A waste of time. The body knows. Trusts its wisdom to say enough. A body in balance and well-regulated internally stops eating when it is full. It does not get hungry in between the 3 meals it gets in a day. It has energy during daytime and it sleeps soundly at night. It does not get overweight nor underweight. And burns enough calories internally it does not need much exercise to stay trim and fit.
Only in highly educated circles do people lose sight of common sense and have to waste their time measuring calories like they have nothing else to do. Being highly educated only guarantees you get an expensive piece of paper to show credulous people you know something more than they do.
If you have to count calories, then you cant possibly be healthy at all.
I so agree. CICO is a big disappointment because the weight will always come back. Your body hates to starve. It hates deprivation. It will fight you forever after you’ve lost the weight. Being kind to one’s body, (meaning eat enough calories and the right kind of calories) will serve you in a superior way.
I wish I had known this in my 20’s. I was forever starving myself trying to be an imaginary perfect size. I wasn’t even over weight. But starving oneself catches up to you as you get older and your screwed up metabolism is the price you pay.
Personally, and this is big for me, I’ve reached a point where I can eat a lot more calories now and not gain weight. That was unheard of before for me. And now my body temperature stays elevated. Just by nourishing my body. And by eating the RIGHT saturated fat.
Avoid PUFAS like the plague. They are in everything. Science is catching up to Ray Peat. They are finding now that PUFAS are implicated in cancer. And other maladies.
CICO is very flawed. If you don't follow CICO, it's because your body uses both sugar and fat intakes efficiently such that what is eaten is mostly turned into kinetic energy to meet the needs of the here and now, and only a small portion is stored as potential energy. Think of the potential energy as being mostly in the form of fats.
When sugar taken in cannot be quickly processed into energy, it accumulates as high blood sugar. Only for high blood sugar to be lowered by converting the sugar to fats.
So much so that when this happens each times one eats, one would keep adding fats and gain weight, and at the same times, as what he eats does not turn into useful energy (kinetic), he will have little energy as well as be hungry. So he could eat again out of hunger, and becaue he is hungry, he doesn't have a choice but to eat again, and gain more weight as he eats again.
This person will end up obese over time with no control over it. Over time, the body will adapt by requiring less food from him, as it downregulates his metabolism. But by then he is a blob, and will be desperate to try anything to lose weight. He will do all the wrong things to lose weight from fasting to eating less carbohydrates in favor of fats and protein.
It's wrong because by fasting he will be geting keep depriving the body of energy that he is already lacking to sustain his long term health.
And in relying more on eating fats he will come to rely more on glycolysis for burning carbohydrates, and this metabolic pathway is wasteful because it produces little useful energy, and because it produces little carbon dioxide which is needed to provide good tissue oxygenation, which is needed if ever energy production has to be more efficient to give more useful energy. Energy is the currency of health, and with a recurring lack of it one would descend into an existence where little energy is required of him, and he might as well spend his life hibernating.,if that is possible at all. Since it isn't possible, he will be on a downward spiral of degeneration as his tissues and organs slowly die and fail, if he isn't overtaken by cancer or a stroke.
And if he should go on a carnivore diet, he will just have to rely on adrenaline and cortisol to convert protein to much needed sugar, and while his blood sugar will not go thru its highs and lows, as sugar becomes available on demand and is never going to be too much to handle, he will be chronically on stress mode, while his immunity suffers as cortisol destroys his thymus gland, and his system gets to deal with a high ammonia load that brings about higher nitric oxide.
This really leaves us with not much choice but to go back to a high carb nutritional lifestyle as the other options are flawed. So if we are left to eat high carb, how is CICO going to be useful when people's bodies treat carbohydrates very differently?
The healthy and trim ones process sugar very well and the carbohydrates quickly gets metabolized in the mitochondria and produces a lot of energy. Not much sugar is left in the blood in excess to cause them to be converted to fats, and the low insulin levels of good blood sugar regulation allows lipolysis to occur such that body fat is used up and not allowed to accumulate to cause obesity and overweight.
On the other hand, those who become overweight and obese absorb and metabolize sugar very slowly, and their carbohydrate intakes keep getting converted to fats in a never-ending cycle of gaining weight and fat stores.
Clearly, because calories can either end up as active energy that does not weigh much as it is eventually used up, or as potential energy in the form of fats, how does CICO make sense?
Perhaps it makes sense, only in terms of applying to each individual context. Such that my CICO and your CICO are different from one another.
Such that you can apply CICO to yourself. But if you're easily trim and don't require much exercise while eating regular meals, you won't care about CICO.
You're only going to want to deal with CICO only if you're overweight or obese.
But this begs the question, would it better not to deal with CICO, but instead work on improving your sugar mtabolism so that you can be like the trim person who eats 3 full meals a day, doesn't have to walk 10k steps each day, and still maintain a normal weight?
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@Amethyst said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
I've long discarded CICO. A waste of time. The body knows. Trusts its wisdom to say enough. A body in balance and well-regulated internally stops eating when it is full. It does not get hungry in between the 3 meals it gets in a day. It has energy during daytime and it sleeps soundly at night. It does not get overweight nor underweight. And burns enough calories internally it does not need much exercise to stay trim and fit.
Only in highly educated circles do people lose sight of common sense and have to waste their time measuring calories like they have nothing else to do. Being highly educated only guarantees you get an expensive piece of paper to show credulous people you know something more than they do.
If you have to count calories, then you cant possibly be healthy at all.
I so agree. CICO is a big disappointment because the weight will always come back. Your body hates to starve. It hates deprivation. It will fight you forever after you’ve lost the weight. Being kind to one’s body, (meaning eat enough calories and the right kind of calories) will serve you in a superior way.
I wish I had known this in my 20’s. I was forever starving myself trying to be an imaginary perfect size. I wasn’t even over weight. But starving oneself catches up to you as you get older and your screwed up metabolism is the price you pay.
Personally, and this is big for me, I’ve reached a point where I can eat a lot more calories now and not gain weight. That was unheard of before for me. And now my body temperature stays elevated. Just by nourishing my body. And by eating the RIGHT saturated fat.
Avoid PUFAS like the plague. They are in everything. Science is catching up to Ray Peat. They are finding now that PUFAS are implicated in cancer. And other maladies.
CICO is very flawed. If you don't follow CICO, it's because your body uses both sugar and fat intakes efficiently such that what is eaten is mostly turned into kinetic energy to meet the needs of the here and now, and only a small portion is stored as potential energy. Think of the potential energy as being mostly in the form of fats.
When sugar taken in cannot be quickly processed into energy, it accumulates as high blood sugar. Only for high blood sugar to be lowered by converting the sugar to fats.
So much so that when this happens each times one eats, one would keep adding fats and gain weight, and at the same times, as what he eats does not turn into useful energy (kinetic), he will have little energy as well as be hungry. So he could eat again out of hunger, and becaue he is hungry, he doesn't have a choice but to eat again, and gain more weight as he eats again.
This person will end up obese over time with no control over it. Over time, the body will adapt by requiring less food from him, as it downregulates his metabolism. But by then he is a blob, and will be desperate to try anything to lose weight. He will do all the wrong things to lose weight from fasting to eating less carbohydrates in favor of fats and protein.
It's wrong because by fasting he will be geting keep depriving the body of energy that he is already lacking to sustain his long term health.
And in relying more on eating fats he will come to rely more on glycolysis for burning carbohydrates, and this metabolic pathway is wasteful because it produces little useful energy, and because it produces little carbon dioxide which is needed to provide good tissue oxygenation, which is needed if ever energy production has to be more efficient to give more useful energy. Energy is the currency of health, and with a recurring lack of it one would descend into an existence where little energy is required of him, and he might as well spend his life hibernating.,if that is possible at all. Since it isn't possible, he will be on a downward spiral of degeneration as his tissues and organs slowly die and fail, if he isn't overtaken by cancer or a stroke.
And if he should go on a carnivore diet, he will just have to rely on adrenaline and cortisol to convert protein to much needed sugar, and while his blood sugar will not go thru its highs and lows, as sugar becomes available on demand and is never going to be too much to handle, he will be chronically on stress mode, while his immunity suffers as cortisol destroys his thymus gland, and his system gets to deal with a high ammonia load that brings about higher nitric oxide.
This really leaves us with not much choice but to go back to a high carb nutritional lifestyle as the other options are flawed. So if we are left to eat high carb, how is CICO going to be useful when people's bodies treat carbohydrates very differently?
The healthy and trim ones process sugar very well and the carbohydrates quickly gets metabolized in the mitochondria and produces a lot of energy. Not much sugar is left in the blood in excess to cause them to be converted to fats, and the low insulin levels of good blood sugar regulation allows lipolysis to occur such that body fat is used up and not allowed to accumulate to cause obesity and overweight.
On the other hand, those who become overweight and obese absorb and metabolize sugar very slowly, and their carbohydrate intakes keep getting converted to fats in a never-ending cycle of gaining weight and fat stores.
Clearly, because calories can either end up as active energy that does not weigh much as it is eventually used up, or as potential energy in the form of fats, how does CICO make sense?
Perhaps it makes sense, only in terms of applying to each individual context. Such that my CICO and your CICO are different from one another.
Such that you can apply CICO to yourself. But if you're easily trim and don't require much exercise while eating regular meals, you won't care about CICO.
You're only going to want to deal with CICO only if you're overweight or obese.
But this begs the question, would it better not to deal with CICO, but instead work on improving your sugar mtabolism so that you can be like the trim person who eats 3 full meals a day, doesn't have to walk 10k steps each day, and still maintain a normal weight?
People who criticize Peat’s recommendations for eating a certain way, saying that all they did was get fat from it etc. etc. is probably because they approached what he was suggesting, the wrong way.
Because suddenly they felt they had the liberty to eat and eat till their heart’s content, they went overboard in their eating…say for example, eating previously forbidden massive amounts of sugar, or juice or fat ….because they perceived that Peat did not believe in condemning carbs for example.
It was a “party on” mentality for some. They had been let out of the self imposed cage of restriction and reacted to that, going in the opposite direction.
Then after they gained a lot of unnecessary weight, they turned around and said that Peat’s reccomendations didn’t work.
IMO it wasn’t Peat’s recommendations that were/are wrong. It was/is their understanding/perception of his recommendations, and their applying them indiscriminately, in an all or nothing, black and white unstudied fashion, that was/is the problem.
I’m not saying this is applicable in all cases.
In my own case, why I am now approaching things differently in regards to Peat’s suggestions, is because I have more understanding as to the “why” Peat recommended what he did.
It’s not enough to say “stop eating Pufas”. It’s understanding WHY they are bad for you. Or understanding why the over abundance of them in our modern society, has had such a detrimental effect on our health.
You don’t avoid them for just avoidance sake. You avoid them because you understand. Because you take the time to understand, by researching Peat’s writings, and comprehending what they do to the human body in excess.
Then, armed with this new found knowledge, you apply it to your life. And you improve. If you approach it in that way.
Everyone wants an instant fix. Not gunna happen that way. Sure, if you starve yourself to lose weight, you do lose, but then you rebound. And gain more weight back. And are fatter as a result. The body knows when it’s being starved. It rebels.It’s a process coming to understand why Peat wrote what he wrote about different topics.
His principals work, his knowledge is helpful, if you approach them with understanding, also paying attention to how eating a certain way works for you individually.
It’s funny in an ironic way, how the cutting edge popular diet gurus ( if we want to call them that) are now confirming how much of what Peat wrote was accurate. It’s been a long time coming.
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@Amethyst said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@Amethyst said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
I've long discarded CICO. A waste of time. The body knows. Trusts its wisdom to say enough. A body in balance and well-regulated internally stops eating when it is full. It does not get hungry in between the 3 meals it gets in a day. It has energy during daytime and it sleeps soundly at night. It does not get overweight nor underweight. And burns enough calories internally it does not need much exercise to stay trim and fit.
Only in highly educated circles do people lose sight of common sense and have to waste their time measuring calories like they have nothing else to do. Being highly educated only guarantees you get an expensive piece of paper to show credulous people you know something more than they do.
If you have to count calories, then you cant possibly be healthy at all.
I so agree. CICO is a big disappointment because the weight will always come back. Your body hates to starve. It hates deprivation. It will fight you forever after you’ve lost the weight. Being kind to one’s body, (meaning eat enough calories and the right kind of calories) will serve you in a superior way.
I wish I had known this in my 20’s. I was forever starving myself trying to be an imaginary perfect size. I wasn’t even over weight. But starving oneself catches up to you as you get older and your screwed up metabolism is the price you pay.
Personally, and this is big for me, I’ve reached a point where I can eat a lot more calories now and not gain weight. That was unheard of before for me. And now my body temperature stays elevated. Just by nourishing my body. And by eating the RIGHT saturated fat.
Avoid PUFAS like the plague. They are in everything. Science is catching up to Ray Peat. They are finding now that PUFAS are implicated in cancer. And other maladies.
CICO is very flawed. If you don't follow CICO, it's because your body uses both sugar and fat intakes efficiently such that what is eaten is mostly turned into kinetic energy to meet the needs of the here and now, and only a small portion is stored as potential energy. Think of the potential energy as being mostly in the form of fats.
When sugar taken in cannot be quickly processed into energy, it accumulates as high blood sugar. Only for high blood sugar to be lowered by converting the sugar to fats.
So much so that when this happens each times one eats, one would keep adding fats and gain weight, and at the same times, as what he eats does not turn into useful energy (kinetic), he will have little energy as well as be hungry. So he could eat again out of hunger, and becaue he is hungry, he doesn't have a choice but to eat again, and gain more weight as he eats again.
This person will end up obese over time with no control over it. Over time, the body will adapt by requiring less food from him, as it downregulates his metabolism. But by then he is a blob, and will be desperate to try anything to lose weight. He will do all the wrong things to lose weight from fasting to eating less carbohydrates in favor of fats and protein.
It's wrong because by fasting he will be geting keep depriving the body of energy that he is already lacking to sustain his long term health.
And in relying more on eating fats he will come to rely more on glycolysis for burning carbohydrates, and this metabolic pathway is wasteful because it produces little useful energy, and because it produces little carbon dioxide which is needed to provide good tissue oxygenation, which is needed if ever energy production has to be more efficient to give more useful energy. Energy is the currency of health, and with a recurring lack of it one would descend into an existence where little energy is required of him, and he might as well spend his life hibernating.,if that is possible at all. Since it isn't possible, he will be on a downward spiral of degeneration as his tissues and organs slowly die and fail, if he isn't overtaken by cancer or a stroke.
And if he should go on a carnivore diet, he will just have to rely on adrenaline and cortisol to convert protein to much needed sugar, and while his blood sugar will not go thru its highs and lows, as sugar becomes available on demand and is never going to be too much to handle, he will be chronically on stress mode, while his immunity suffers as cortisol destroys his thymus gland, and his system gets to deal with a high ammonia load that brings about higher nitric oxide.
This really leaves us with not much choice but to go back to a high carb nutritional lifestyle as the other options are flawed. So if we are left to eat high carb, how is CICO going to be useful when people's bodies treat carbohydrates very differently?
The healthy and trim ones process sugar very well and the carbohydrates quickly gets metabolized in the mitochondria and produces a lot of energy. Not much sugar is left in the blood in excess to cause them to be converted to fats, and the low insulin levels of good blood sugar regulation allows lipolysis to occur such that body fat is used up and not allowed to accumulate to cause obesity and overweight.
On the other hand, those who become overweight and obese absorb and metabolize sugar very slowly, and their carbohydrate intakes keep getting converted to fats in a never-ending cycle of gaining weight and fat stores.
Clearly, because calories can either end up as active energy that does not weigh much as it is eventually used up, or as potential energy in the form of fats, how does CICO make sense?
Perhaps it makes sense, only in terms of applying to each individual context. Such that my CICO and your CICO are different from one another.
Such that you can apply CICO to yourself. But if you're easily trim and don't require much exercise while eating regular meals, you won't care about CICO.
You're only going to want to deal with CICO only if you're overweight or obese.
But this begs the question, would it better not to deal with CICO, but instead work on improving your sugar mtabolism so that you can be like the trim person who eats 3 full meals a day, doesn't have to walk 10k steps each day, and still maintain a normal weight?
People who criticize Peat’s recommendations for eating a certain way, saying that all they did was get fat from it etc. etc. is probably because they approached what he was suggesting, the wrong way.
Ray didn't provide a way, to be fair. He was talking from the perspective of someone whose body has not been destroyed by a modern lifestyle based on the myths of modern pharma medicine, where what is good for us is taught to us as bad, and vice versa.
Some very impressionable and credulous people just went hog wild on Coke and white sugar, and starch came to be seen as a pariah, just because Ray Peat said grains come with toxins that are put there by plants to keep animals from consuming them. But these idiots have themselves to blame for not seeing the positives in starches. As starches are very useful, especially the ones that come with fiber, as it would be useful for people whose blood sugar tend to rise because they cannot handle a sudden large load of sugar, as what happens with eating white sugar, many fruits, and honey.
With one broad brush, some came to avoid everything that is considered starch, even those that are not grain-based. Such as the root-based starch and even fruit-based starch (plantains).
Some have gut issues that make it hard to take starches, and they have a harder time with starches. But still, it is their gut they need to first work on as well as their inability to process white sugar well. But there are no coaches to guide them as most coaches are still on their own learning curves.
But there is a method to the madness, but even when someone has a way, his way is not easy to explain and implement, as it involves taking into account the context of each individual. The more nuance to it, the harder it is to understand and to get sold to something, especially where a magic bullet is not available, but instead a road map that involves patience, as there is a process to it, and it involves some thinking to break through some thought barriers.
PERCEIVE. THINK. ACT. Just becomes an empty mantra that with each day becomes like a uses up slogan that has lost its meaning.
Temporal thinking is the faculty that’s
engaged by an enriched environment, but it’s
wrong to call it “thinking,” because it’s simply
the way organisms exist... - Ray Peat Nov 2017 Newsletter -
@Amethyst said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
I've long discarded CICO. A waste of time. The body knows. Trusts its wisdom to say enough. A body in balance and well-regulated internally stops eating when it is full. It does not get hungry in between the 3 meals it gets in a day. It has energy during daytime and it sleeps soundly at night. It does not get overweight nor underweight. And burns enough calories internally it does not need much exercise to stay trim and fit.
Only in highly educated circles do people lose sight of common sense and have to waste their time measuring calories like they have nothing else to do. Being highly educated only guarantees you get an expensive piece of paper to show credulous people you know something more than they do.
If you have to count calories, then you cant possibly be healthy at all.
I so agree. CICO is a big disappointment because the weight will always come back. Your body hates to starve. It hates deprivation. It will fight you forever after you’ve lost the weight. Being kind to one’s body, (meaning eat enough calories and the right kind of calories) will serve you in a superior way.
I wish I had known this in my 20’s. I was forever starving myself trying to be an imaginary perfect size. I wasn’t even over weight. But starving oneself catches up to you as you get older and your screwed up metabolism is the price you pay.
Personally, and this is big for me, I’ve reached a point where I can eat a lot more calories now and not gain weight. That was unheard of before for me. And now my body temperature stays elevated. Just by nourishing my body. And by eating the RIGHT saturated fat.
Avoid PUFAS like the plague. They are in everything. Science is catching up to Ray Peat. They are finding now that PUFAS are implicated in cancer. And other maladies.
-
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@Amethyst said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@Amethyst said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
@yerrag said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
I've long discarded CICO. A waste of time. The body knows. Trusts its wisdom to say enough. A body in balance and well-regulated internally stops eating when it is full. It does not get hungry in between the 3 meals it gets in a day. It has energy during daytime and it sleeps soundly at night. It does not get overweight nor underweight. And burns enough calories internally it does not need much exercise to stay trim and fit.
Only in highly educated circles do people lose sight of common sense and have to waste their time measuring calories like they have nothing else to do. Being highly educated only guarantees you get an expensive piece of paper to show credulous people you know something more than they do.
If you have to count calories, then you cant possibly be healthy at all.
I so agree. CICO is a big disappointment because the weight will always come back. Your body hates to starve. It hates deprivation. It will fight you forever after you’ve lost the weight. Being kind to one’s body, (meaning eat enough calories and the right kind of calories) will serve you in a superior way.
I wish I had known this in my 20’s. I was forever starving myself trying to be an imaginary perfect size. I wasn’t even over weight. But starving oneself catches up to you as you get older and your screwed up metabolism is the price you pay.
Personally, and this is big for me, I’ve reached a point where I can eat a lot more calories now and not gain weight. That was unheard of before for me. And now my body temperature stays elevated. Just by nourishing my body. And by eating the RIGHT saturated fat.
Avoid PUFAS like the plague. They are in everything. Science is catching up to Ray Peat. They are finding now that PUFAS are implicated in cancer. And other maladies.
CICO is very flawed. If you don't follow CICO, it's because your body uses both sugar and fat intakes efficiently such that what is eaten is mostly turned into kinetic energy to meet the needs of the here and now, and only a small portion is stored as potential energy. Think of the potential energy as being mostly in the form of fats.
When sugar taken in cannot be quickly processed into energy, it accumulates as high blood sugar. Only for high blood sugar to be lowered by converting the sugar to fats.
So much so that when this happens each times one eats, one would keep adding fats and gain weight, and at the same times, as what he eats does not turn into useful energy (kinetic), he will have little energy as well as be hungry. So he could eat again out of hunger, and becaue he is hungry, he doesn't have a choice but to eat again, and gain more weight as he eats again.
This person will end up obese over time with no control over it. Over time, the body will adapt by requiring less food from him, as it downregulates his metabolism. But by then he is a blob, and will be desperate to try anything to lose weight. He will do all the wrong things to lose weight from fasting to eating less carbohydrates in favor of fats and protein.
It's wrong because by fasting he will be geting keep depriving the body of energy that he is already lacking to sustain his long term health.
And in relying more on eating fats he will come to rely more on glycolysis for burning carbohydrates, and this metabolic pathway is wasteful because it produces little useful energy, and because it produces little carbon dioxide which is needed to provide good tissue oxygenation, which is needed if ever energy production has to be more efficient to give more useful energy. Energy is the currency of health, and with a recurring lack of it one would descend into an existence where little energy is required of him, and he might as well spend his life hibernating.,if that is possible at all. Since it isn't possible, he will be on a downward spiral of degeneration as his tissues and organs slowly die and fail, if he isn't overtaken by cancer or a stroke.
And if he should go on a carnivore diet, he will just have to rely on adrenaline and cortisol to convert protein to much needed sugar, and while his blood sugar will not go thru its highs and lows, as sugar becomes available on demand and is never going to be too much to handle, he will be chronically on stress mode, while his immunity suffers as cortisol destroys his thymus gland, and his system gets to deal with a high ammonia load that brings about higher nitric oxide.
This really leaves us with not much choice but to go back to a high carb nutritional lifestyle as the other options are flawed. So if we are left to eat high carb, how is CICO going to be useful when people's bodies treat carbohydrates very differently?
The healthy and trim ones process sugar very well and the carbohydrates quickly gets metabolized in the mitochondria and produces a lot of energy. Not much sugar is left in the blood in excess to cause them to be converted to fats, and the low insulin levels of good blood sugar regulation allows lipolysis to occur such that body fat is used up and not allowed to accumulate to cause obesity and overweight.
On the other hand, those who become overweight and obese absorb and metabolize sugar very slowly, and their carbohydrate intakes keep getting converted to fats in a never-ending cycle of gaining weight and fat stores.
Clearly, because calories can either end up as active energy that does not weigh much as it is eventually used up, or as potential energy in the form of fats, how does CICO make sense?
Perhaps it makes sense, only in terms of applying to each individual context. Such that my CICO and your CICO are different from one another.
Such that you can apply CICO to yourself. But if you're easily trim and don't require much exercise while eating regular meals, you won't care about CICO.
You're only going to want to deal with CICO only if you're overweight or obese.
But this begs the question, would it better not to deal with CICO, but instead work on improving your sugar mtabolism so that you can be like the trim person who eats 3 full meals a day, doesn't have to walk 10k steps each day, and still maintain a normal weight?
People who criticize Peat’s recommendations for eating a certain way, saying that all they did was get fat from it etc. etc. is probably because they approached what he was suggesting, the wrong way.
Ray didn't provide a way, to be fair. He was talking from the perspective of someone whose body has not been destroyed by a modern lifestyle based on the myths of modern pharma medicine, where what is good for us is taught to us as bad, and vice versa.
Some very impressionable and credulous people just went hog wild on Coke and white sugar, and starch came to be seen as a pariah, just because Ray Peat said grains come with toxins that are put there by plants to keep animals from consuming them. But these idiots have themselves to blame for not seeing the positives in starches. As starches are very useful, especially the ones that come with fiber, as it would be useful for people whose blood sugar tend to rise because they cannot handle a sudden large load of sugar, as what happens with eating white sugar, many fruits, and honey.
With one broad brush, some came to avoid everything that is considered starch, even those that are not grain-based. Such as the root-based starch and even fruit-based starch (plantains).
Some have gut issues that make it hard to take starches, and they have a harder time with starches. But still, it is their gut they need to first work on as well as their inability to process white sugar well. But there are no coaches to guide them as most coaches are still on their own learning curves.
But there is a method to the madness, but even when someone has a way, his way is not easy to explain and implement, as it involves taking into account the context of each individual. The more nuance to it, the harder it is to understand and to get sold to something, especially where a magic bullet is not available, but instead a road map that involves patience, as there is a process to it, and it involves some thinking to break through some thought barriers.
PERCEIVE. THINK. ACT. Just becomes an empty mantra that with each day becomes like a uses up slogan that has lost its meaning.
“Ray didn’t provide a way”…..
Yeah, that’s a good point….people have to find their own way towards good health. And it’s a lot of trial and error to get there. But if quality health metabolically speaking, really is your goal, and you’re not settling for a quick fix, you will eventually get there. If you really want it. Or, you will have achieved an improved way of life….if you hang in there…
I think a lot tried something but then gave up…because they didn’t see instantaneous results in a their new way of eating. …..you have to continue to see the nuances of what Ray was saying. Not give up and throw the baby out with the bathwater because something didn’t work….
When I first examined a lot of what Peat had written, I couldn’t fully wrap my mind around a lot of it. But I’ve persisted and applied a lot of the ideas and have become what I consider, healthier and thriving.
Ray had really good pieces of the puzzle.
As I’ve said elsewhere, he was a pioneer going against the establishment “grain”.
I’ve come to realise that he was so right about a lot of what he wrote. I kinda marvel at that.
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@Atman said in What to do as a giga fatty?:
Go for a walk (~1 hour+) everyday.
This is much more enjoyable and healthy than running.In addition, once or twice a week, do some moderate strength training, for example bodyweight exercises with good form and low speed. 20 minutes per session is all it takes. You can read "body by science" if you are interested in the theoretical background and details of that recommendation.
In 6-12 months, you will be transformed, 110 kg isnt that bad.
I’ve really come to appreciate not destroying my body through intense extreme exercize. There is a lot to be said just ENJOYING a walk….not trying to get in as many steps as you can to reach some made up goal, or exercizing as fast as you can to burn more calories or whatever.
You’ll eventually burn yourself out.
Stopping and smelling the roses, enjoying nature WITHOUT STRESS has great value on one’s psyche and heals your body.
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first of all, dont take advice from anyone who hasnt posted physique
