Iodine - too much!

LucH

I had a CT with iodine contrast last week. Afterward I initially felt great actually, really warm and energetic. But this week I feel the worst I've felt in years.

Logical. Counter-reaction. Your symporters / conveyors were probably asleep when you got the contrast product with iodine. What wasn't used / assimilated (90%) had to be dealt / evacuated. Too much for the liver. So, you felt sick.
Next time (not before 4 weeks), you'll probably assimilate 50 % if you take iodorate (R) 12.5 mg. Need both K2 and IK.
I'd drink 100 ml (3.5 oz) water with 1/4 tsp sodium (1.2 g) and and more water 100 ml x 2 or 3 every 30-45' to go and pee, until you feel better.
Bicarbonate sodium would be better than NaCl, of course.

chosroes

Interesting topic. I've been feeling sluggish for a long time with some hypothyroid-like symptoms, constipation, exercise intolerance, appetite loss etc. For several years I've been using non-iodized salt. Started using some iodized salt recently on a whim, and have gotten some hyper-like effects, more energetic, sleeping a bit less, often warmer. I never really considered it a factor after hearing Ray talk about excess being more of a thing than deficiency given a diet containing eggs, milk, but I don't know. Guess I'll keep using it for a bit and see how it pans out.

Did the naturopath in the OP video provide sources for the low iodine study, anywhere? Couldn't see anything on his website.

LucH

@chosroes said in Iodine - too much!:

Did the naturopath in the OP video provide sources for the low iodine study, anywhere? Couldn't see anything on his website.

I won't watch a video that says iodine above RDA is dangerous . Try to countre-act the mainstream "idea". See the link beneath.

Signs of iodine deficiency
Main signs of iodine deficiency leading to metabolic disorders in adults
Apart from usual symptoms as goiter enlargement, hypothyroidism, impairment of mental function, spontaneous hyperthyroidism in the elderly, Drs David Reliquet and David Minkoff mentions additional symptoms like reduced alertness & slow metabolism leading to fatigue, sluggishness, apathy, depression and insomnia; lack of optimal detoxification, particularly of bromides, fluorides and heavy metals; sensitivity to temperature changes, cold hands and feet; muscle pain, etc.
80. Optimum Health Report #334 – Dr. David Minkoff, Medical Director.
https://www.lifeworkswellnesscenter.com/health-blog/health-products/optimum-health-report-334.html
The Need for Iodine Supplementation - by Wojciech Rychlik, Ph.D.

Insr

@TexugoDoMel said in Iodine - too much!:

How high was your iodine intake before and how much do you consume now?

From ~720 mcg dropped to ~75 mcg.

Well, you could try adding more antioxidants to your diet and see if that helps. In animal studies, they mitigate some of the damage from high iodine intake with vitamin C. But I suspect that you'll have to keep testing to find out where the problem is influencing your redox negatively.

If I have any suspicion of a micronutrient deficiency, I always start with it. But if I don't know I usually start with the micronutrients that can give the best results (in my opinion), so thiamine+magnesium to support the Pentose Phosphate Pathway and NADPH, other B vitamins (if I'm not mistaken, every protocol with iodine adds B2 and/or B3), minerals like potassium, etc..., while I try to support the antioxidant system by offering what's necessary for things like glutathione synthesis, melatonin (I know Peat didn't like it, but I don't have a problem) and if necessary exogenous antioxidants like vitamin C to support that period if it would benefit me.

This isn't medical advice, it's just what I usually do when I'm unwell.

Hmm, thank you. I've tried most vitamins over the years and never got much out of them (like most people). I've never used melatonin though.

I don't know much about the glutathione system - doesn't the MTHFR thing supposedly have something to do with that? Dr. Christianson (the guy in the low iodine to cure thyroid disease video that I posted) mentions in his book that 99% of people with thyroid disease have the MTHFR thing. I'm suspicious of genetic disease theories and know very little about MTHFR, but maybe it really is involved?

Insr

@chosroes I have not seen his source for that, although he talks about it frequently. Maybe it's actually the results of the patients in his practice, and isn't a published study.

When I tried increasing iodine again to see what would happen, I had a very brief increase in energy (sort of weird energy though) that lasted maybe 45 minutes, then I got sleepy and the next day I was super sluggish. I read in this article that when the thyroid's exposed to an excessive amount of iodine and it damages the thyroid, there is a momentary release of thyroid hormones into the blood from the destroyed thyroid tissue.

Insr

As you probably know Ray Peat was against excess iodine. He says that amounts even less than 1000mcg can be excessive and that chronic excess iodine can cause thyroiditis. Source: https://www.functionalps.com/blog/2011/10/12/the-myth-of-iodine-deficiency-an-interview-with-dr-ray-peat/

In interviews he mentions that the iodine-based dough conditioners that used to be in most bread were making the typical American diet have far too much iodine at that time. Only 20% of American bread products are made with iodine-based dough conditioners now. Still a big problem, but not for those who eat homemade bread or no bread at all.

I believe the excess iodine in milk could be the thing missing from standard Peating. From his comments, Ray doesn't appear to have been aware that milk is so unnaturally high in iodine now. (due to supplementing the cows way too much) - a typical Peater could easily be getting excess iodine. (there's an easy fix: switch milk with cheese. Modern USA milk averages 85mcg/cup, most hard cheese averages 14mcg/ounce. Before iodine supplementation, milk was about 14 mcg/cup.)

LucH

@Insr said in Iodine - too much!:

I read in this article that when the thyroid's exposed to an excessive amount of iodine and it damages the thyroid, there is a momentary release of thyroid hormones into the blood from the destroyed thyroid tissue.

=> Interpretation

Dr. Izabella Wentz says :
Iodine needs to be processed by the thyroid gland, and when the thyroid is inflamed, the processing of iodine will likely produce more inflammation. If you give an angry and overwhelmed organ more work to do, you’ll likely see it become even angrier!
A person may feel more energetic when first starting an iodine supplement, but lab tests will reveal that their “new energy” is coming from the destruction of thyroid tissue, which dumps thyroid hormone into the circulation. Reports will show an elevated TSH, elevated thyroid antibodies, and in some cases, low levels of active thyroid hormones.
This is why I don’t generally recommend iodine supplements to people with Hashimoto’s. I don’t believe that the short-term artificial boost in energy is worth destroying your thyroid gland!

My comment:
=> You don’t have to take iodine for boosting the energy level but because you don’t get the required nutrient (I2 and KI) when taking NDT or only T4. You need an appropriate level of iodine in other tissues than the thyroid.
Before taking iodine, we need selenium to limit the action (anti-inflammatory). And as iodine has a powerful action as anti-microbial, anti-inflammatory effects, residues from LPS will be discharged, as well other toxins from the gland and the blood.
You can’t manage without a tiny amount of iodine. But first we have to begin very slowly, particularly to acclimate / open the symporters NIS, a kind of pump to exchange Na/I.
For sure, some people will react badly, especially if you never or seldom eat fish or seafood.
Finally, let me recall that women need iodine in breast: 1/7 or 1/8 will caught a bad issue if they don’t.
Sources:

Effect of small doses of iodine on thyroid function in patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis residing in an area of mild iodine deficiency
W Reinhardt, M Luster, et al. DOI: 10.1530/eje.0.1390023
92% of Dr. David Brownstein's patients (Basedow or Hashimoto) were treated with iodine and improved after taking Lugol.
D. Brownstein, Overcoming Thyroid Disorders, Medical Alternative Press, 2002.

chosroes

@Insr Thanks, yeah I'm gonna err on the side of caution. The epidemiological data seems like it's worth trying to stay in a safe range. Hope the effects I've been getting aren't bad news. Did you recover alright after the iodine test?

Insr

@chosroes I did, thanks!

William Shat

@Insr probs because the mega dosed ot out of the blue (skipped required cofactors / didnt build up to tve mega dose first)

Insr

Iodine sources are:
A lot of cosmetics and pharmaceuticals
Red dye #3 (cherry red coloring)
Iodized salt
Certain fancy salts like Redmond Real Salt and pink himalayan salt. Sea salt has some but it varies how much.
Any food made with a high iodine salt
Bread products made with iodine dough conditioner: 148 mcg/slice
Seaweed
Seafood (A few species are high, but most don't have as much as you'd think)
Milk: 85 mcg/cup today because cows are over-supplemented
Yogurt
Cheese: 14mcg/oz in most types, but it varies
Eggs: 25 mcg/egg cause hens are over-supplemented
Meat (but generally not in very large amounts)
Orange juice: 21 mcg/cup. And Grapefruit juice too. (This is because they sanitize the storage tanks with iodine. Oranges and grapefruits by themselves have very little.)
Some fruits packed in syrup, probably for similar reasons.

Orange juice having iodine was a surprise to me! I researched why and wrote an article about it, since you can't find a word about it on the internet currently. Here it is: https://endocrinefriendly.com/orange-juice-iodine/

And most other food has barely any iodine, That's why it would be hard for a typical non-seaweed-eating person in the past to end up eating a very high iodine diet, before iodine fortification and before dough conditioners. I estimate an inland person (living in a part of the world with iodine rich soil) in 1890 would get maybe 80 mcg iodine per day.

Corngold

"We eat so many shrimp, I got iodine poisoning" - Pimp C / Three 6 Mafia

yerrag

I've been on 150mg SSKI daily the past 4 years. It has been good on my oral health as I use it each night as a mouthwash before swallowing the SSKI dissolved in an eighth of a cup.

My temperature has held steady and my thyroid condition has stayed the same. I haven't seen my biological dentist for 4 years already. Normally, I would get a dental cleaning once a year to keep my periodontitis from flaring up but with the sski mouthwash my teeth and gums are well protected.

Recently I decided to take 750mg of sski daily for 2 weeks, at a daily 5 x 150mg sski schedule. As a precaution, I also would take selenium daily at 200 mcg. During the two weeks, I would have skin allergies each night and it makes sleeping more difficult. I also notice that it disturbs the sinus rhythm of my heart to a slight degree.My plethysmograph (using the Heart Rate Analyzer app on my Samsung Galaxy S10), shows some unevenness im the recorded wave activity.

My experience confirms what users have experienced as some of the effects mentioned in an article on iodine written by Mark Sircus, on the late Walter Last's website:

https://www.health-science-spirit.com/Healing_the_Body/Iodine.html

Still, my dosage is high and I wouldnt recommend it to anyone, especially not knowing their context. I cut short my use of this dosage to just 2 weeks because the skin allergy wont let up, taking that as a red flag I should not continue to ignore.

I don't know what the skin allergy points to, but it could be the anticrobial action of iodine that produces LPS, or the remote possibility that free iron is being excreted thru the skin.

I also don't know why I could take a huge dose of iodine without feeling harmed by it, but I have to think that it has to involve being free of mineral and vitamin deficiencies, as well as having a good metabolic foundation from a good macro mix in my diet. I live in a tropical archipelago and I eat with good inputs from the sea in which the seafood grows from the natural bounty of nature in contrast to the livestock which is primarily feed-based and sub-optimal, which I also eat out of Economic practicality.

I am hexed by high blood pressure, and find myself in a perpetual struggle to lower it. So without going into specifics, my use of iodine is part of a continuing experiment to see what would work in lowering my BP.

Corngold

@yerrag said in Iodine - too much!:

I also don't know why I could take a huge dose of iodine without feeling harmed by it, but I have to think that it has to involve being free of mineral and vitamin deficiencies, as well as having a good metabolic foundation from a good macro mix in my diet. I live in a tropical archipelago and I eat with good inputs from the sea in which the seafood grows from the natural bounty of nature in contrast to the livestock which is primarily feed-based and sub-optimal, which I also eat out of Economic practicality.

Is iodine good for lowering blood pressure?
Do you think high carb is good for keeping moderate blood pressure?

yerrag

@Corngold

It's not clear-cut with regard to lowering blood pressure. I'm of the opinion that the wisdom of the body determines the blood pressure of a given individual that allows him to adapt to his level of health.

For a person in peak health, I can assume that the BP would be around 120/80 (give or take) without any prescription medication. Once I was like that, until my body accumulated toxins as well as developed a level of low grade infection (meaning no fever) that caused my body's immune system to respond and to adapt to that condition. For a long time, about 19 years, my BP stabilized at 180/120, all the time without medication. I never had a headache nor would any part of my body feel sore. I alsonhad no allergies nor would I experience fever or flu for 20 years and counting. From this I would be given to conclude that my high BP wasn't detrimental to the kind of healthy balance I have.

What I would realize as I took note of the rise and fall of my BP in a continual cycle of reverting to the mean of 180/120 is that the times I felt very energetic would be the times my BP would be higher, and when I am sick my BP would go lower. An example would be when I would take methylene blue and my BP would go higher. As methylene blue increases my metabolism, and to support a higher metabolic rate, the BP increases to allow increased blood circulation. This example just goes to show that an increase in BP isn't necessarily a bad development. On the other hand, a lowering of BP may be a red flag, as people who are close to dying and waiting for their time would experience drops in BP.

This brings me back to your question on iodine, on whether it helps with lowering my BP.

The answer is it may, and this is why I'm increasing my body's iodine stores. I hope the neutrophils, a kind of white blood cell, would produce ROS (reactive oxygen species) of the HOI- variety instead of the HOCl- variety, as the HOI- variety is more gentle in terms of oxidative stress when the neutrophils devour toxins and pathogens, during which time ROS are used and spillover ROS cant be avoided. The spillover ROS can destroy surrounding tissues, but the harm is mitigated by protective primary antioxidants in the ecf (extracellular fluid).

Albumin is the chief antioxidant in the ecf, and in my case, it is heavily used to quell oxidative stress from spillover ROS. As albumin gets used up, the oxidized albumin is excreted in urine. That albumin gets used and is lost, only to be replenished later by the liver.

But this is a chronic condition, and my albumin stores never get replenished to where it is abundant and optimal. Albumin is always deficient in my plasma, and since albumin is needed to attract and retain salt in plasma, salt is not being retained well in plasma. And since salt attracts and holds on to water, the plasma being in a constant state of lacking enough salt makes plasma lacking the volume needed to make my blood sufficient in volume. With my blood being low in volume, my blood pressure has to be increased to compensate, in order to make my blood able to circulate sufficiently around the body to feed it withnoxygwn and nutrients as well as clear metabolic waste.

I am hoping the use if iodine would be part ofy therapy to eventually bring my blood volume back to normal as well as my BP.

Our doctors and institutional researchers fail at this, and I have to take this quest on my own.

LucH

@yerrag said in Iodine - too much!:

It's not clear-cut with regard to lowering blood pressure. I'm of the opinion that the wisdom of the body determines the blood pressure of a given individual that allows him to adapt to his level of health.

Well seen
What about your HbA1c (glycated hemoglobin).
Excerpt:
recent reports showed that antioxidant properties of impaired albumin may be related to pathological conditions.
During its long lifetime (more than 20 days), an albumin molecule makes about 15 000 passes through the circulation [10]. Albumin incurs some damage that affects its antioxidant properties. These modifications could occur in diabetes mellitus, which is one of the pathological condition associated with early occurrence of vascular complications, together with functional alterations of albumin [41].
Source:
The antioxidant properties of serum albumin
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.febslet.2008.04.057

LucH

Another clue: interaction between lipovitamins
=> Ratio revisited.
Excerpt
Vitamin D toxicity redefined: vitamin K and the molecular mechanism.
Vitamin A protects against vitamin D toxicity by preventing the excessive production of vitamin K-dependent proteins, especially matrix Gla protein, also known as MGP.
It may be, then, that an extreme imbalance between vitamins A and D leads to the synthesis of abnormally high amounts of MGP. If there is enough vitamin K to activate all of the MGP, it will help protect the soft tissues from calcification. If, instead, the vitamin K cannot keep up with the level of MGP being produced and the pool of vitamin K becomes depleted, soft tissue calcification ensues.
Thus, we could also say that vitamin A exerts a vitamin K-sparing effect.

Note: If our levels of vitamin D already turn round 35 ng/ml, we shouldn't take high levels of vitamin D. 1.000 UI is enough. Six months a year since my latitude is 50°, North hemisphere. (From 02 September till 01 March).

Useful info on the ratio on Masterjohn's site but I don't like the way CM's site has evolved.