Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List
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@alfredoolivas glp 1 agonistis also have the "side effect" of giving you cancer and shredding skeletal and cardiac muscle.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2452302X24002869
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3920789/where are you getting that ozempic stops the stress response?
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They genuinely starved these animals, the semaglutide animals lost more than 100% more fat than the control group.
Yes, if one group eats a calorie amount that causes them to lose more than 100% more fat than the control group, then of course there will be side effects.
The second article says this: "Regarding the controversy of whether GLP-1–based therapy can increase the risk for specific malignant disease like pancreatic carcinoma and thyroid cancer, our conclusion is that apparently there is neither firm evidence in favor of this hypothesis nor evidence strong enough to rule out any such increased risk based on results available at present. We may learn answers to some of the questions from ongoing randomized controlled trials (e.g., cardiovascular safety trials underway for most approved compounds within the classes of GLP-1 receptor agonists or DPP-4 inhibitors) by analyzing databases or registries better suited for an unbiased postmarketing surveillance of adverse events associated with novel antidiabetes drugs. However, as of today the evidence in favor of the hypothesis that incretin-based medications cause specific types of malignant disease (e.g., pancreatic or [medullary] thyroid cancer) or increase the risk for cancer in a more general sense is not convincing enough to be seriously considered when making treatment decisions regarding the choice of antidiabetes medications."
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@samson said in Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List:
where are you getting that ozempic stops the stress response?
My experience??
Also, the anti-stress effects whilst dieting are why people love ozempic so much, and why the whole country will be on it. It makes dieting 90% easier I would say.
Also, its a proven anti-depressant, and anti-anxiolytic in animal studies. Amongst other benefits, such as being anti-parkinsons
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Justify, defend or scientific research until your heart is content….
This type of catabolic activity is not increasing mitochondrial respiration AFAIK
The users I know have severe muscle wasting
Peat has not endorsed it
If you love it
Good on youBut
S Tier Peaty is nonsense -
Bromantane and Naltrexone is dope.
Have tried many things here, and I mostly agree with this list.
Except ozempic and mg glycinate lol
I want to try Lisuride, I wonder how it compares to microdosing LSD which doesn't feel good for me.
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@Peatful It's been shown to have pro-mitochondria affects as well.
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@alfredoolivas said in Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List:
@Peatful It's been shown to have pro-mitochondria affects as well.
I figured of course
I have anecdotal and empirical evidence that it is - damaging
The muscle loss alone is an indicator that it is not without risks or certainly contraindications
Peat has said that organisms lose mass as they age or are closer to death
Not here to debate
Honestly
Best of health to you -
Wow, that's a lot of drugs. I'd like to see your medicine cabinet lol. I don't know why you'd even consider ozempic as a weight loss shortcut when you've got t3 and testosterone on your list. Hell, I'd take DNP over semaglutide without second thought if I was desperate enough to lose weight.
Besides the side effects listed by Novo Nordisk and the media coverage of ozempic face and gastroparalysis, semaglutide sets you up for serious rebound. Some people even find that it stops working while you're on it. I'll have to dig up the study I found a while ago that showed that semaglutide prevented existing fat cells from storing lipids while causing a proliferation of new fat cells. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
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@alfredoolivas Solid tier list, but ozempic at top is questionable... Glad it helped you lose weight though
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@Metabolist said in Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List:
Some people even find that it stops working while you're on it. I'll have to dig up the study I found a while ago that showed that semaglutide prevented existing fat cells from storing lipids while causing a proliferation of new fat cells. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
Hmmmm.... sounds like something thyroid hormone does
Triiodothyronine (T3) promotes brown fat hyperplasia via thyroid hormone receptor α mediated adipocyte progenitor cell proliferationIn all seriousness, anything that causes fat cells to brown, causes hyperplasia of fat cells, whic is why thyroid and GLP-1 both cause fat cell hyperplasia, as they both brown the fat cells. Brown fat cells have a lot less apoptosis than white fat cells.
@Metabolist said in Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List:
Besides the side effects listed by Novo Nordisk and the media coverage of ozempic face and gastroparalysis, semaglutide sets you up for serious rebound
Diabetic people are already prone to gastroparalysis lol, so of course if they are treated with semaglutide, they are at a further risk of gastroparalysis. It doesn't mean it happens to normal people.
Ozempic is given to the most hypometabolic people in society (obese and diabetic people), so of course there will be side effects, because as Ray said, anything is dangerous to a hypothyroid person.
@Metabolist said in Pro Metabolic Substances Tier List:
Wow, that's a lot of drugs. I'd like to see your medicine cabinet lol. I don't know why you'd even consider ozempic as a weight loss shortcut when you've got t3 and testosterone on your list. Hell, I'd take DNP over semaglutide without second thought if I was desperate enough to lose weight.
Because they don't work on me. DNP is made in China with hell knows what. I am no way taking 200mg of a heavy metal laden powder, probably made with chemicals fit for industrial use.
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Fascinating list. Thanks for sharing. Where do you get your Cabergoline from? Thanks.
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@alfredoolivas I'm pretty certain semaglutide increased WAT along with brown. If you feel comfortable taking it then don't let me stop you. My point of contention is that the long term effects aren't fully known and rebound upon discontinuation is a real possibility.
How could testosterone and T3 not work on you? Sounds like a dosage or authenticity issue
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@Metabolist For you to lose weight by increasing the metabolic rate, you know you would have to burn 500 extra calories a day to lose a pound a week? Testosterone and thyroid don't allow you to burn 500 more calories a day lol.
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@Peatful Bone loss and excess catabolism can all be explained by much rapid and sustained weight loss.... if you lose more weight and your weight loss doesn't plateau you will lose more muscle. In interventional animal studies, where they simply weren't studying correlations and observations, GLP 1 agonists have been shown to be anti-catabolic to both bones and muscles.
I also saw another study that said the opposite about GLP 1 agonists effect on mental health.
But fair enough for sharing these studies. I personally have not experienced this, and have got even more stronger in the gym on semaglutide, but these are fair talking points.
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How do you approach cabergoline - dosage, timing, frequency etc.?
What's your take on cabergoline vs pramipexol?
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@alfredoolivas They absolutely do in supraphysiological doses. Try perusing some bodybuilder forums. I wouldn't recommend you try high t3 though as it will send your appetite through the roof.
Yes, yes 3500cal in a pound of fat, assuming that you burn it exclusively. Is ozempic known to preserve lean mass and bone density compared to a solid exercise and diet plan alone?
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@Metabolist They don't, studies have shown healthy men taking testosterone, don't get any change in metabolic rate, and thyroid for barely to change the metabolic rate and weight loss. On that topic, thyroid has shown to be very catabolic in humans but people love to keep quiet about that one here.
I have tried different brands of thyroid, taken up to 300mcg a day, and have not lost weight. Same goes for testosterone. I am on bodybuilder forums, and thyroid is only useful when yourbody stops burning fat during a calorie deficit, and testosterone isn't even talked about for a fat loss agent, even though it has fat loss related benefits like muscle preservation.
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@anib 0.25mg twice a week.
I haven't got a good answer. Pramixepole seems to have some opposite effects than the ergot derivatives. Pramixepole encourages fat gain for example, whereas cabergoline and bromocriptine promote it, pramixepole is more asssociated with compulsive dissorders etc, I just don't trust Pramixepole, it is a lot stronger than cabergoline, I read it is stronger than dopamine by 100%+, whereas cabergoline is around 70% as strong as dopamine. Seems very artificial. Just my intuition really, no good reason.
