Purposely eating PUFA - Dropping nutrition

gg12

@yerrag I dont know if your original "babbling" comment was directed at me or not. Obviously peat can still teach me alot and I havent dove deep into him, I do apperciate him. But as soon as I say im not following his principles you discount my argument as babbiling? I thought peat said not being open to new ideas was a sign of bad health and high serotonin?

Alas im just joking
Attack my argument not me

gg12

@eduardo-crispino Appreciate the honest response bro.
I honestly am trying to pick up some writting in my free time.
As I said in the thread im very high serotnin right now so I am very sloppy: organizing ideas etc.

Also your right I prob dont need to post about everything but I am curious what people have to say.

I used to have a job wear I touched recipts all day and yeah I wore gloves cause if I dont I would be SUPER tired .
At grocery stores I swear I see so many bald dudes at the register touching receipt after and after.

When I eat pufa its my familys cooking TBH not outright oil but like its in say a tortia or something,

Ill try to devlop complex and rooted arguments in the future

gg12

@Rah1woot When I first heard that it didnt really resonate with me but yeah the orthorexia is real. Having to worry about whether you ate PUFA or not is not worth the stress. Also NGL my metabolism feels to fast sometime and I burn through food too fast and it makes me really stressed to be hungry or on empty stomach.
One day ill properly try peating again but im going to let go of it a bit for sake of my mental

yerrag

@gg12 said in Purposely eating PUFA - Dropping nutrition:

@yerrag I dont know if your original "babbling" comment was directed at me or not. Obviously peat can still teach me alot and I havent dove deep into him, I do apperciate him. But as soon as I say im not following his principles you discount my argument as babbiling? I thought peat said not being open to new ideas was a sign of bad health and high serotonin?

Alas im just joking
Attack my argument not me

Sorry for not quite understanding your situation and I have difficulty understanding your post. I hope you can overcome your present difficulties. I haven't been in your situation and have my own challenges but I can say it's lonely one's own challenges are hard to overcome by oneself and it's hard for others to understand. You are going through that and so am I but in different degrees and in different stages of solving the problem. My reaction to your post comes from your use of PUFA as something to be considered benign at best. What you are really saying is that people seem to do well, or are more functional, or are better situated even with being full of PUFA their lifestyle. And that your current focus on being Peaty and trying to remove PUFA is not as important as directly dealing with more immediate issues that are just as important.

So your focus on Peat and bioenergetics may be misplaced. That I can agree with you.

And putting undue focus on being Peaty at the expense of other remedial actions can be seen as an escape from facing head on issues. And that is true.

But how you do that seems easy if your mind is in the right place. Which is to say that a sick person, especially one who has issues that affect being mentally fully functional, would have to focus more on getting his head right, but that is like a question of what comes first- the chicken or egg, or the cart before the horse. They are neither. So that is a dilemma.

And you are right about talking with the people in your life for help. For this isn't something you can do yourself. You need their help. And that is difficult to do asking for help even from family, especially your father- if he is not one you know who can understand. But he may, so you have to give that a chance.

Bioenergetics is not an easy subject. Peat can write a lot about it, and most if not all is true and coherent. But applying his principles to even his own context, he may stumble. If he were overweight to begin with, he may be overweight and not overcome it. But he started out normal weighted, and he isn't one who could coach people to lose weight from obese to normal. Danny Roddy started out thin, and hadn't had the challenge of transforming from fat to thin, but his friendship with haidut hasn't rubbed off on haidut enough to make haidut slim down. haidut hasn't lost a lb since I first saw, and seemed to have put on weight. Yet he knowsa lot, and is someone I listen to, but he isn't omniscient, and has some gaps that kept him from slimming down. Count all the members of the bioenergetics forums, and it's common knowledge that as a group, members cannot preach bioenergetics by example to people who preach keto or carnivore. They find it hard to say " I went from 200 lbs to 140 lbs.", the weight for his height to be considered normal- because hefollowed Ray Peat's principles. For people still do things where they think they are doing it right, but for a few practices they still don't get it right.

Sorry if this counts for babbling to the low comprehending member here.

doorflamme

@yerrag said in Purposely eating PUFA - Dropping nutrition:

@gg12 Babbling is incoherent. Being Peat is coherency. Keep talking. Maybe it will finally becoming coherent. Let me know when you figure it out.

Gay answer. let him cook

Korven

@gg12 said in Purposely eating PUFA - Dropping nutrition:

Touching recipt is life affirming

Thanks OP this made me lol

But seriously though...

I think OCD and anxiety is mostly just gut irritation. I can turn it on and off by eating certain foods. In my teenage years I was eating pasta, oatmeal, bread everyday and I was literally going insane from OCD.

Do you keep a food journal? It can be useful to connect the dots between triggering foods (and supplements) and symptoms.

Korven

A related thought:

If you've been sick your entire life (e.g. someone with celiac who is eating gluten everyday) it is impossible to know what it feels like to be healthy. Basically, there is no good reference point to relate to, and this can make efforts to improve your health seem daunting (since you don't realize how good you could feel and you question whether you should just eat what everyone else eats and stop bothering with it all).

I feel like I've been on both sides and it's such a stark difference that is difficult to explain. Being truly healthy is a profound experience of wellbeing - or euphoria like Ray said - and I think if you are not feeling this way on a daily basis then you are far from your potential. Some proxies for health, for me, is how good music sounds and how much I seek novel experiences/meeting people.

LucH

@gg12 said in Purposely eating PUFA - Dropping nutrition:

I always had issues : neurosis , low test , OCD , etc
I found peat and saw it as a awnser to a lot of my problems.

You can combine 2 approaches.
Possible causes of low mood disorder and lack of energy
A combination of biological, genetic, environmental, and psychological factors.
I’d see what can impact Brain chemistry: Imbalances in neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine can contribute to mood disorders.
Microbiome and leaky gut are two other possibilities.
The way your mother ate, thought and gave birth has an effect that lasts far behind …
Gluten and other prolamins have an impact on the tight junctions of the stomach. See Dr. jean Seignalet (immunolist), or Dr. Jaqueline Lagacée. See beneath.
Another clue: impact on enzymes
Young children haven't had time enough to develop heavy metal poisoning when living in natural wealthy environment. However, some children inherit the gene weakness from their parents. Why? The ground (30%) + the way of life (70%).
Additional cause (part of the problem):
Cereals cause zonulin secretion. Zonulin increases intestinal permeability (leaky gut). Tight junctions are no longer operational (by people suffering from poor digestion).
PS: Thiamin (B1) can help a lot to optimize energy and to set things in the right order / to exchange information (brain) but it won't do much if you can tolerate some stuff.
As far as oils is concerned (omega-3), we didn’t talk about EPA – DHA – GLA in nineties. Only from whole food.
Not to take literally. Seignalet is not a nutritionist but an immunologist.
As far as vegetables are concerned, raw for enzymes but not at the beginning when your bowels are irritated. We’d better eat them steam-cooked and according to what you can tolerate. Adapt yourself.
As far as pseudo-cereals are concerned, they are admitted but moderately. I advise to limit them once a day, a small portion. Buckwheat and rice do contain antinutrients. Like all cereals.
Not good for endothelial cells. Cereals cause zonulin secretion. Zonulin increases intestinal permeability (leaky gut). Tight junctions are no longer operational (by people suffering from poor digestion).
If you want a more thorough explanation, see the links, mostly in French (translator required):
NB: Not everyone will agree on this topic. Therefore, I won't elaborate further. Everyone is more or less sensitive to certain molecules, environmental factors, etc. Up to you if you want to go deeper, now or later. Most people need time …
Sources and references
1a. Hypotoxic guidelines from Jean Seignalet. Explanation.
http://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t324-seignalet-presentation-complete-par-luc
Encrassage et surexposition du système immunitaire (Clogging of the body and overexposure of the immune system).
1b. Additional link for English readers:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&text=Dr.+Dominique+Seignalet&search-alias=books&field-author=Dr.+Dominique+Seignalet&sort=relevancerank
How to prevent & reverse 100 diseases. by Dr. Dominique Seignalet (Son of Jean Seignalet, clinical pathologist and immunologist)
2. Dr. Jaqueline Lagacée.
http://mirzoune-ciboulette.forumactif.org/t767-une-alimentation-ciblee-pour-preserver-ou-retrouver-la-sante-de-lintestin-leffet-antidouleur-dune-diete-hypotoxique#7341
Jacqueline Lagacé.
Ph.D., (doctor of virology) professor-researcher specialized in immunology and microbiology, director of a research laboratory for 17 years, retired from the Faculty of Medicine, University of Montreal. Blog jacquelinelagace.net
Author's books:

The end of pain. How nutrition and diet can fight chronic disease, 2011.
New book in October 2016 : Une alimentation ciblée pour préserver ou retrouver la santé de l’intestin. L’effet antidouleur d’une diète hypotoxique. 22 – 25 €.

Wabi-sabi

@LucH @gg12 Is Sodium Butyrate likely to be helpful to repair tight junctions, I have benefited greatly from it, Merci beaucoup

Jennifer

Great topic, @gg12. And excellent comments, @Korven. Just to add some thoughts on suffering as it’s sometimes glorified as a way to validate our pain, give meaning to it, and this can leave us believing it’s optimal and stuck in painful cycles.

It’s true that the life-affirming happens while under pressure, but it’s also true that the life-affirming happens while in the flow. Bruce Lee proposed the idea of being water, and it has been my experience that being adaptable or “in the flow,” like I imagine “Chad” to actually be, is a whole lot easier when the body’s basic biological needs are met which, despite how unhealthy they seem on the surface, may be what Chad’s choices are accomplishing. Peat/diet is one of many outlets people may be using to channel their anxiety, but I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that what appears as escapism is actually an attempt at course-correcting, a Hail Mary even, driven by a biological need. Like Korven, I’ve experienced for myself just how powerful nutrition can be on mindset and thus the confidence, or even just the energy, to face challenges. Also, keep in mind that those who are using Ray’s work as an outlet for their anxiety have actually had to push passed fear to experiment like we do because he never designed a protocol to follow so we’re left to find our own way.

I’m all for the underdog, the hard-won victories, making perceived impossibles possible, and I’ve had the difficult talk with my dad, resisted old habits used to protect myself, overcome some pretty heavy experiences, despite handicaps, but I came to realize that my penchant for the struggle, that no pain, no gain mindset, was stemming from generational beliefs that were instilled in me, which stemmed from low self-worth, which was exacerbated by low blood sugar—within 15 minutes of having some fruit juice, I could go from thinking the world would be better off without me to knowing the world is a better place because I exist, just like I know the world is a better place because you exist, and I think we’d be hard-pressed to find someone living their best life who doesn’t know deep down that they’re deserving of it. All that the struggle was really doing for me was revealing to me what I’m made of, which I would have already known had previous generations never forgotten what they were made of for what I believe we are born knowing to be fostered in me…and perhaps indulged more in sweet stuff. A flower can grow through a sidewalk crack, but not without the nurturing of Mother Nature and I don’t think that any less life-affirming. How could it be? It’s the miracle that is life itself.

Corngold

@gg12 said in Purposely eating PUFA - Dropping nutrition:

Also NGL my metabolism feels to fast sometime and I burn through food too fast and it makes me really stressed to be hungry or on empty stomach.

This probably explains why high metabolism mfers always eat fast food and high-pufa meals, and remain ectomorphs. I think they need the pufa to gain "calm" and steadiness. In this case I wonder if Peat's ideas would apply more to middle and later age people in the first place. It's not like he was publishing papers when he was 20 or 30 for people of that age like this community is now doing.

From what I've seen, many people who gained weight who were otherwise skinny and healthy before, either took medications, had an injury, became depressed and/or stressed, or all of the above or other major life conflicts. It isn't just eating fast food or high pufa, though I know for a fact a guy who basically loved fast food and rightly believed binge eating it very frequently over the years made him obese.

I don't think I've ever had a "high" metabolism. If I have a healthy metabolism it has been interfered with through environment, food, endocrine disruption, etc which coinciding with genes probably influences fat accumulation and distribution.

ThinPicking

Non-faustian fake peating with humour and hope patches. Best peating.

Corngold

@Korven said in Purposely eating PUFA - Dropping nutrition:

I feel like I've been on both sides and it's such a stark difference that is difficult to explain. Being truly healthy is a profound experience of wellbeing - or euphoria like Ray said - and I think if you are not feeling this way on a daily basis then you are far from your potential. Some proxies for health, for me, is how good music sounds and how much I seek novel experiences/meeting people.

I would also offer a counter-argument that "good health," if it is euphoric, is not normal. How could it be? This is tough because as you said, if you've never felt energized by conversations, work, or experiences, or very seldom have been, then the baseline is so low and likely remote and distant to the present, that one does not simply start building their reality towards this experience of the world.

Also, euphoria might be a byproduct of experience that oneself does not intentionally create. There's always biofeedback. Arguably I think this post-industrial world is a lot of negative feedback, or positive feedback towards negative and destructive ends. Many actions can cause negative outcomes, and not taking action in most things does the same. Same with food and diet, even though it isn't everything. The openness required for someone to make changes seems to stem from a general openness about experience, which, again, if the baseline is very low, will be difficult to raise in order for more options and mobility to appeal.

Parts of the world operate differently, but there's no reason to think the 2008 housing crisis or other events are not as dire as actual wars. Our experience of events is as important or more important than the event itself. Same with 9-1-1, or the Coughvid madness.

Just saying, because "what would it be like for things to go well and feel good" can almost be inconceivable for many people.

LucH

@Wabi-sabi said in Purposely eating PUFA - Dropping nutrition:

Is Sodium Butyrate likely to be helpful to repair tight junctions, I have benefited greatly from it.

Yes, but if you don't eat the appropriate foodstuff, it won't match.
Glutamine for enterocytes and butyrate for colonocytes
Butyrate is the preferred fuel of colonic epithelial cells, the colonocytes, providing approximately 70% of their energy needs. (1)
So let's give glutamine to enterocytes and butyrate to colonocytes.
Source:

Dr. Georges Mouton
Les effets sur la santé du butyrate intestinal. Julien Venesson
https://www.julienvenesson.fr/butyrate-intestinal-effets-sante/

NB: You need taurine with glutamine to lower brain excitation (from glutamate).
Did you see the impact of the different prolamins? (whey, casein, gluten, etc.) I posted somewhere on the forum...

@yerrag you are a cheap phillipino who cuts off cat’s tail himself instead of taking it to vet (this is all documented on rpf) and who blames jews for everything despite being probably a catholic himself. i actively scroll past your dear diary posts without reading

Peatful

Peat said you are healthy (est) when one is not thinking of their health.
Paraphrased.

Freedom from naval gazing is really really nice.

Best to the OP.

yerrag

@eduardo-crispino easy on the horchata, you know it's bad for your outsized belly

gg12

@yerrag I am impressed with your mature response. My response was immature and I am overly concerned with tit for tat/eye for an eye. Or just arguing on the internet in general. I think your response is super peaty because instead of responding with some savage roast or toxic comment you conceded and didnt out right refute. I think I sort of get what you are saying about everyone having your own problems.....Haidut Roddy etc.

Also 90prcent of the time I think my "issues" like "oh I have this disease or this health issue I need to fix (gut issues) Is a projection of my OCD. So I will try to be more life affirming and stop trying to change things or relying on "oh once I take antibiotics I will feel better"
I have trapped myself in 90 percent of my issues:
"There is a false saying, 'Whoever cannot save himself - how can he save others? ' But if I have the key to your chains, why should your and my lock be the same." - Nietzsche

yerrag

@gg12 That's a nice quote from Nietzsche. It took awhile for me to make sense of it. It makes perfect sense. There are many other mental blocks to our healing. It's important to be self-aware so we can be able to question our own selves, as our own judgment can put our own ego ahead of truths that are evident, and that can stand in the way of finding the root cause that keeps us from healing ourselves. And it's not just ourselves getting in the way, as we have to disabuse ourselves of the notion that the more widely held an idea is, the more valid it is. You see this at work when you see the contradiction in Peat's writings and how it contrasts with those of the 'learned' establishment. Many are unable to overcome the blind spots they are programmed and conditioned into by society.

Atman

@Rah1woot said in Purposely eating PUFA - Dropping nutrition:

Danny Roddy suggested that "nutrition was overrated" and that a stimulating life is the most important thing, I tend to agree.

Do you happen to know where he said this?
I am also more and more inclined to believe that nutrition is highly overrated in the health-sphere on the internet.
Once you cook yourself with high quality ingredients and ditch the seed oils, you are already better off than 99,9% of the population. Fine tuning and obsessing about further details is a waste of time, unless you have already maxed out all of the other aspects of your life which is extremely unlikely for most of us.
I tend to agree with OP that many people on health forums use this obsession as a form of escapism. The magic puzzle piece which will make your life finally awesome is just around the corner, just one more forum thread, one more Youtube video, one more obscure supplement to try, etc..
Psychology is probably the bottleneck for the majority of people nowadays, not nutrition.