B-complex and or Multi recommendation?
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@albion said in B-complex and or Multi recommendation?:
Would you recommend someone trying to diagnose if they need more Cysteine to take NAC? If yes, just as a diagnostic tool or ok as a regular/intermittent supplement?
Mind the combination of NAC with B3, if high dose, at a prolonged use.
*) When Niacin(or vitamin B3) and NAC (N-acetyl cysteine) are combined, especially under specific pH and concentration conditions, a chemical reaction may occur that forms pyrazinic acid (pyrazine).
Most sources specify that no interaction has been found between NAC and niacinamide (or nicotinamide). This is incorrect when there is prolonged concomitant use with a high dosage of NAC.
The toxic effects of pyrazinic acid may include cellular damage and oxidative stress, which is of particular concern for people with predispositions to oxidative stress-related diseases.Sources and References
- Hepatotoxicity related to anti-tuberculosis drugs: mechanisms and management
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jceh.2012.12.001 2013.
The toxicity of pyrazinamide is both dose dependent with a higher dose at 40–50 mg/kg, with NAC combination. (2 800 to 3 500 mg NAC for 70 Kg/weight, or +/ 170 Lb). - Unproven (questionable) cancer therapies.
ML Brigden - Western Journal of Medicine, 1995 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Mega-doses of vitamin B3 (niacin) have liver toxicity and have produced acid peptic disease,
myocardial infarct, gouty arthritis, glucose intolerance, hyperkeratosis, and skin rashes."
- Hepatotoxicity related to anti-tuberculosis drugs: mechanisms and management
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@GRay said in B-complex and or Multi recommendation?:
I just took a quick look at it, there is citric acid in it.
Can you tell me roughly the danger of citric acid? Is there a Peat article on it?
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@Corngold I didn't really retain much info on Citric Acid, I heard Georgi talking about it many times in a negative way as cancer promoter, perhaps Ray Peat has some article or interview about it.
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@wester130 I know this company. It looks good, I like it since it doesn't have B12 in it. However it doesn't have the B5 in it though, which I think it can be helpful for adrenal hormone production.
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Since I'm ingesting allot of B12 from food, beside the 8oz of liver I have weekly I also eat 1lb of beef heart as well, plus 3 eggs daily, do you think adding more B12 with a B-complex once or twice weekly can be an issue?
it seems like the products I like they also contain the B12, beside Energin and the B-complex from Forefront
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@GRay said in B-complex and or Multi recommendation?:
I heard Georgi talking about it many times in a negative way as cancer promoter
Not at this dose, in a supplement, as an antioxidant (citric acid).
The dual role of citrate in cancer
Excerpt
In this context, targeting citrate and citrate-related metabolism [[6], [7], [8]] may appear to be a novel and hopeful option. Citrate is an intermediate of the tricarboxylic acid (TCA) cycle (also known as Krebs cycle). In the cytosol, it is cleaved by ATP-citrate lyase (ACLY) into oxalacetate (OAA) and acetyl-CoA. The latter is the primary substrate for fatty acid (FA) synthesis (FAS) or protein acetylation (either in the cytosol or in the nucleus for epigenetic modifications). Increased de novo FAS is one of the hallmarks of cancer cells, as well as an increase in aerobic glycolysis, the so-called Warburg effect [9]. Therefore, an adequate citrate supply is crucial to sustain cancer cells growth. However, citrate is also a Ca2+ and Mg2+ chelator, as well as a potent inhibitor of phosphofructokinase-1 (PFK1), the key regulatory enzyme of glycolysis [10], and also of phosphofructokinase-2 (PFK2) [11], which produces fructose-2,6-bisphosphate (F-2,6-BP), the main potent activator of PFK1 [12]. Consequently, proliferative cancer cells need to strictly control their intracellular citrate level to keep their metabolism balanced. Indeed, while a low level of citrate could impair cancer cell growth due to decreased FAS, an excessive level may have detrimental effects on glycolysis, ATP production and cell survival [13,14]. Therefore, such a need for a strict control of intracellular citrate level by cancer cells may offer two strategies potentially valid for cancer treatment, i.e., (1) reducing intracellular citrate levels (for example by inhibiting citrate uptake) and (2) flooding cells with excessive citrate to arrest glycolysis.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.bbcan.2023.188987
Science Direct 2023. Philippe Icard et al. -
@albion said in B-complex and or Multi recommendation?:
@CrumblingCookie Would you recommend someone trying to diagnose if they need more Cysteine to take NAC? If yes, just as a diagnostic tool or ok as a regular/intermittent supplement?
IMO both is possible. NAC is much much less excitatory than free cysteine and really good as long as there's no diarrhea from taking it. In the latter case it's better to work up with sulfate. It's difficult to forecast the full circle of interdependencies which depends on individual overall health.
For regular or continuous intermittent use I'd blend the NAC 1:1 with glycine and add a basis of 100mcg molybdenum per day. Lots of vegan protein powders are especially poor in cysteine (and total sulfur amino acids) so adding NAC to them can make them feel much more wholesome and nutritious imo.
