Glucose loading cures everything?
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@ThinPicking said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
The Faustian chemist types are doing their own thing.
I can agree with this statement. After all, every single individual does and is ought to do her own thing.
I feel no need to debate that. "Faustian chemist types" made me chuckle a little. It seems you generally understood the groups I described as distinct subsets of a general population who never dabbled in self-experimentations of all sorts and who may thus have varying baselines to both the better and the worse.@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
100 x 5, or 20 x 5?
100gr x5. I.e. 500gr per day.
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@gentlepotato said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
In my case, retracing is revisiting old symptoms that haven't flared up in years. So experiencing those along with my current pathologies hasn't been a picnic. I'm sure I need to increase my dose. I'm buying dextrose in 50 lb bags now.
Thanks for sharing, that's helpful.
Another indication that healing is being supported is itchy skin and rashes. Both my husband and I have had those since starting glucose. Thankfully they don't last long.
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He mentions that you need a sufficient dose each time alert the brain that there is now sufficient glucose available to it.
I'm sorry but what does this even mean?
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@happyhanneke I've pondered that a few times myself. What has helped me understand it a little better is remembering that the body downregulates thyroid in times of starvation (a survival mechanism). It takes a while and perhaps some overfeeding to reset our metabolism when we haven't had adequate nutrients/calories. Could something similar be happening in the brain and we need to overfeed pure fuel to reset it? It's just a comparative analogy ...the pathways and mechanisms are certainly going to be different.
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@S-Holmes
Maybe. It sounds hocus pocus. I never like doctors or professionals that talk like that or tell you to talk to your body.
But then again I have to remember that he is in behavioral health. I work with behavioral health providers all the time and this is how they talk. So maybe it's as simple as that. -
On his website, he links an article on
"Brain capillary pericytes are metabolic sentinels that control blood flow through a KATP channel-dependent energy switch"
(energy-dependent and K+ influx activation).
https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(22)01768-5Maybe someone would like to dig into this and report. There could be much more at play than an oversimplified assumption of glucose-sensing. Perhaps (re)stimulation of cell differentiation of those pericytes. Or (re)stimulation of their KATP expression. And perhaps CNS revascularization overall.
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Interesting. There's inevitably focus on the circulatory in this. Which may relate to previously mentioned osmotic/fluid dynamic and therefore structural properties of glucose. Which will depend on availability of other structural components while/until the renal system 'normalises' composition.
"In vivo, these arteries constrict in response to intravascular pressure, establishing a baseline of myogenic tone from which diameter can be modulated to adjust blood flow."
Maybe his dosing strategy is feeding something else (in him), before his brain lights up.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3078804/
"However, improvement in the oxidative capacity and efficiency rather than the selection of the substrate is likely the ultimate goal for metabolic therapies."
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@Jaffe said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
For bloat. Try minimizing the amount of water you mix it with as low as possible. I found 70-80ml enough to fully dissolve but low enough to minimize the bloat I used to get with a whole glass of water. Dr. Stephens says his patients that use glucose tablets don’t experience the bloating issue that dextrose powder users do.
I'm a normie sugar guy but this sounds reasonable to me. I'd be interested to know what David is doing concentration wise. And what else he eats. And what else he drinks. I almost want to talk to him.
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Thank you for this GorB. A mixed bag of stresses. Even the whole high school or college football thing, without impacts, is a an aerobic and competitive (psychological) stress. Like academy football here in England. Players do it because they love it, but there's a weight in eyes and expectations of others in time. And the theme of multiple concussions is interesting because Evan Torrens described that too.
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Is there a way to glucose load using food? 100ml grape juice 4x per day?
So far, I'm with @ThinPicking and @Peatful in thinking it should be similar to pro-metabolic/anti-stress effects from sucrose, starch or any carbohydrate based on the mechanisms Peat described. It would be a brilliant discovery to learn that glucose-only has uniquely pro-metabolic effects or is good for chronic fatigue syndrome etc.
Regarding the glucose-only approach in the Stephens protocol, I read up-thread that someone theorized it could be especially beneficial for people with some specific derangement in the "normal" breakdown of other sugars into glucose and then ATP, where misfiring breakdown products become toxic to the brain, thus, possibly explaining why glucose-only is effective. More information, even speculative, about the mechanisms that make glucose special would be good to read here -- and whether there are reasonable food-based approaches to "glucose maxing" that might work (e.g. foods with more cofactors that help the breakdown process from all carbohydrates to blood-glucose).
Forum members living in Germany may wish to comment on parents giving schoolchildren glucose tablets before intense exams, etc., as a nootropic/de-stressor.
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@T-3 said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Is there a way to glucose load using food? 100ml grape juice 4x per day?
So far, I'm with @ThinPicking and @Peatful in thinking it should be similar to pro-metabolic/anti-stress effects from sucrose, starch or any carbohydrate based on the mechanisms Peat described. It would be a brilliant discovery to learn that glucose-only has uniquely pro-metabolic effects or is good for chronic fatigue syndrome etc.
Regarding the glucose-only approach in the Stephens protocol, I read up-thread that someone theorized it could be especially beneficial for people with some specific derangement in the "normal" breakdown of other sugars into glucose and then ATP, where misfiring breakdown products become toxic to the brain, thus, possibly explaining why glucose-only is effective. More information, even speculative, about the mechanisms that make glucose special would be good to read here -- and whether there are reasonable food-based approaches to "glucose maxing" that might work (e.g. foods with more cofactors that help the breakdown process from all carbohydrates to blood-glucose).
Forum members living in Germany may wish to comment on parents giving schoolchildren glucose tablets before intense exams, etc., as a nootropic/de-stressor.
I love grape juice
And it was a part of my healing journey via foodBut
For clarification
The use of sucrose -not solely fructose- was key for meAgain that was: white sugared milk. Cokes. Icings. Puddings. Cheesecake. Candies. Sweet tea. Sugared coffee. Etc.
And I ate these not separately
but part of my meals…. -
@T-3 said in Glucose loading cures everything?:
Regarding the glucose-only approach in the Stephens protocol, I read up-thread that someone theorized it could be especially beneficial for people with some specific derangement in the "normal" breakdown of other sugars into glucose and then ATP, where misfiring breakdown products become toxic to the brain, thus, possibly explaining why glucose-only is effective. More information, even speculative, about the mechanisms that make glucose special would be good to read here -- and whether there are reasonable food-based approaches to "glucose maxing" that might work (e.g. foods with more cofactors that help the breakdown process from all carbohydrates to blood-glucose).
That was probably me! I'll try to speculate some more soon, just haven't had time to edit my ramblings yet
I reached out to Stephens through his homepage yesterday to inquire about the more detailed and scientific book he was alluding to in Glucose 101. Haven't heard back yet, so I thought I'd ask here to! Does it exist? Where can I get it?
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@GlucoseOrBust How did your consultation go? What dose does he have you on now?
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@S-Holmes It went pretty well. He has a way of addressing my skepticism each time we talk that doesn't leave me feeling gaslighted. He's always 100% confident that results are around the corner, which wouldn't be believable without my intuitive sense of his honesty and the incredible results from such diverse patient types. I could not sustain this process without talking with him.
I am up to 18-20 Tbsp 3-4x per day. It's a lot for me. Just thinking that I'm consuming 2 lbs of sugar each day is hard to stomach (literally). The nausea is still better, but the mental and psych symptoms are unchanged for me. If anything, I feel that my moods are swinging as much as ever. Onward I go though.
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@GlucoseOrBust OMG! Mixing in water? I'm just taking 2.5 T per dose and that's over the top sweet for me.
Love your willingness to try this! I know sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures.
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@S-Holmes That's a out it. Desperation will only take me so far. Need some inspiration (symptom improvement in me or others) to keep this train rolling.
I mostly mix it in water with a bit of lime juice and add in some psyllium fiber often to help the stomach upset. -
@GlucoseOrBust I agree. Hoping for a good report soon!
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@GlucoseOrBust sorry to hear you're not experiencing the needed relief yet. Are you using any markers, and if so what's happening with those?
I've continued on a tbsp every hour, and as I lowered my dose my symptoms got better and I woke up refreshed again - which is a very big deal with ME/CFS, as non-refreshing sleep is a cardinal symptom and I haven't really had refreshing sleep since 2006. I now take 12-14 tbsp a day.
Yesterday however I inadvertently ended up taking a bit more and landed on 17 tbsp, and now I am again having low BG symptoms, low pulse that feels very high (was 65), my sleep was very light and I had a nightmare. I woke up at 2am, I now feel wide awake and hungry, and I'm gonna have to eat something. I can't be 100% sure, but I think it's because I took more. More calories and more fuel will make the metabolism go faster, and could possibly more directly tank the blood sugar as well.
What are people's thoughts on having so many empty calories a day and how are you navigating it? Don't get me wrong, I'm not against that at all, as long as it's balanced with nutrient dense foods. I'm not surprised patients of Stephens are having symptoms on big doses. I'm not necessarily worried and think it can be balanced out over time, but I suspect that without leaning on RP principles along the way the ride can be unnecessarily bumpy.
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@gentlepotato Have you noticed any retracing?
Since I'm eating less (appetite is suppressed) I take brewers yeast and vitamin C with every dose. I take a little B12 since brewers yeast has none, and also a little D, E, K, magnesium, selenium, and aspirin.
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I've received my order of 10kgs "organic" dextrose and am wondering whether that makes any difference to "regular" dextrose.
I.e. how big of a glyphosate burden there could at all be in "regular" dextrose after it's enzymatic processing and filtration, i.e. its "processing factor" which is hopefully <1.
Since dextrose powder is practically protein-free, there also shouldn't be much glyphosate (glycine-like) residues?
Does anyone have an inkling?Seeing that dextrose is being consumed as an isolated substance, devoid of any protein and especially glycine natural to all foods I am thinking that any residual impurities could in theory have a much bigger negative impact.
Maybe that's significant. Maybe it's not. I couldn't find any analytics.Here's my preliminary collection of various bits of info:
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The official MRL (Maximum Residue Level) of glyphosate
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for sugar is 25ppm (US), !!!
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for sugar beets is 15ppm (EU), !!!
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However, since dextrose is derived from starch and therefore either cereals or corn:
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for cereals it's 30ppm (US, EU), !!!!
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for corn it's 13ppm (US) !! or 4ppm (EU).
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It therefore seems dextrose derived from corn would be generally preferable.
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The ADI (Allowed Daily Intake) for glyphosate is 1.75 milligrams per kilogram of bodyweight per day (mg/kg/bw/day) in the USA while the European Union has set it at 0.3. (0.5?),
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This 0.3mg/kg/bw/day means an officially allowed maximum of 21mg glyphosate per day for somebody weighing 70kgs. This could be 700grs of dextrose.
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We all know those MRLs are set way too benevolent. Probably by some orders of magnitudes.
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Officially, dextrose from cereals could contain up to 30mgs of glyphosate per 1kg?
However, in the few origin declarations which I've seen the dextrose actually comes from China and only gets repackaged domestically.
I couldn't find MRLs on finished dextrose, neither for the USA nor the EU.
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