Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”
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@Gaston look forward to hearing how that goes.
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@Mauritio
I've been using0.5% Butyrate sodium
1.5% Dextrose
1.5% Lactic acid (L(S)+)
1.0% Potassium chlorideand since I didn't have any pure alcohol or propylene glycol at hand I added the above to a store-bought hair tonic containing alcohol, glycerin, panthenol, coffeine, ocimum basilicum extract.
I clearly went on the very generous side with the dextrose concentration. Maybe I'll back down to 1%.Findings:
- This blend works better than what I had used before (dextrose or dextrose+ASS+glycine or the store product by itself).
- What I ascribe to the lactic acid: My scalp was slightly itchy after application in the beginning. Then I seemed to get used to it. Now still again sometimes. It seems in many cosmetic recipes, they just go for 0.5% free lactic acid and 2-10% lactate-sodium. The latter is allegedly much gentler. I may therefore choose to use potassium carbonate next time instead of KCl.
- This blend leads to an odd kind of coating on my hair, though, which can make them look like not been washed for several days. It's not immediate, i.e. when I've applied the solution after a shower in the evening it's all fine and dandy but in the morning it will already appear as if I hadn't washed my hair for at least day or as if I had worked out and sweat. It's not sticky nor does it look dirty or truly greasy, however. Kind of reminds me of the dry oilyness of saturated magnesium chloride solution.
Any idea what causes this? I'm thinking perhaps the combination of the butyrate or salts with the glycerin or alcohol.
Other thoughts I haven't yet deeply looked into or decided upon:
- Dehydroacetic Acid, Benzyl Alcohol
- Benzoic Acid, Sorbic Acid (+Benzyl Alcohol)
- Phenetyl Alcohol
for preservation instead of alcohol + propylene glycol. - Pirocton olamine for antifungal action to take up the discussed topic of skin fungal burdens. This one had been proposed at the old RPF yet without feedback.
- 2% Urea for keratolysis, i.e. better absorption + as a skin humectant.
- Bisabolol for antiinflammatory + antimicrobial action + as a skin humectant + reductant.
- Allantoin for antiinflammatory + proliferative action + mild keratolysis (instead of urea?) + as a skin humectant.
- Vitamin E, racemic acetate or natural tocopherol as a skin humectant + reductant.
- Propolis (extract) for flavonoids for soothing +proliferative action.
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@CrumblingCookie said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
@Mauritio
I've been using0.5% Butyrate sodium
1.5% Dextrose
1.5% Lactic acid (L(S)+)
1.0% Potassium chlorideand since I didn't have any pure alcohol or propylene glycol at hand I added the above to a store-bought hair tonic containing alcohol, glycerin, panthenol, coffeine, ocimum basilicum extract.
I clearly went on the very generous side with the dextrose concentration. Maybe I'll back down to 1%.Findings:
- This blend works better than what I had used before (dextrose or dextrose+ASS or the store product by itself).
- What I ascribe to the lactic acid: My scalp was slightly itchy after application in the beginning. Then I seemed to get used to it. Now still again sometimes. It seems in many cosmetic recipes, they just go for 0.5% free lactic acid and 2-10% lactate-sodium. The latter is allegedly much gentler. I may therefore choose to use potassium carbonate next time instead of KCl.
- This blend leads to an odd kind of coating on my hair, though, which can make them look like not been washed for several days. It's not immediate, i.e. when I've applied the solution after a shower in the evening it's all fine and dandy but in the morning it will already appear as if I hadn't washed my hair for at least day or as if I had worked out and sweat. It's not sticky nor does it look dirty or truly greasy, however. Kind of reminds me of the dry oilyness of saturated magnesium chloride solution.
Any idea what causes this? I'm thinking perhaps the combination of the butyrate or salts with the glycerin or alcohol.
Other thoughts I haven't yet deeply looked into or decided upon:
- Dehydroacetic Acid, Benzyl Alcohol
- Benzoic Acid, Sorbic Acid (+Benzyl Alcohol)
- Phenetyl Alcohol
for preservation instead of alcohol + propylene glycol. - Pirocton olamin for antifungal action to take up the discussed topic of skin fungal burdens. This one had been proposed at the old RPF yet without feedback.
- 2% Urea for keratolysis, i.e. better absorption + as a skin humectant.
- Bisabolol for antiinflammatory + antimicrobial action + as a skin humectant + reductant.
- Allantoin for antiinflammatory + proliferative action + mild keratolysis (instead of urea?) + as a skin humectant.
- Vitamin E, racemic acetate or natural tocopherol as a skin humectant + reductant.
- Propolis (extract) for flavonoids for soothing +proliferative action.
So many ingredients . How are you going to pinpoint what exactly helps if anything helps?
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@CrumblingCookie nice one.
Maybe the greasiness is from the chloride, which I don't use .Do you not get weird rancid butter smell from the butyrate. I have dropped it from the newest batch.
I get a great cosmetic effect still. It doesn't seem to work everyday but most days. It's like a hair gel /wax strengthener .
I also feel like my scalp is more flexible and I can wiggle it around more easily.
Not sure if it decreased hair loss in general.
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@Mauritio said:
Do you not get weird rancid butter smell from the butyrate
Not at all. I had also used the butyrate suspended in water on my arms before and it was fine. Smell-wise it only slightly lingers when blended into oils. Maybe others with a selectively different sense of smell would disagree. Disappointing that you've given up on the topical butyrate as I would have liked to read more from your experience with it.
I get a great cosmetic effect still. It's like a hair gel /wax strengthener .
Could it be that we are referring to the same observation? The kind of coating or dry, non-sticky look of greasiness I mean could also be described as a fashionable surfer-style to out-of-bed-look. I agree the hair feels and looks smooth and nice immediately after application, easy to comb and accentuate and antistatic, i.e non-frizzy.
I also feel like my scalp is more flexible and I can wiggle it around more easily.
Not sure if it decreased hair loss in general.Generally I've noticed much less hair loss since applying this blend. It's almost as much as before on some days, though, annoyingly.
I'm definitely liking the lactic acid. The scalp seems smoother and less dry after regular use. I've looked through reviews online of pure LA drops and many people use it to rub their faces with, reporting smoother and fuller skin.
Intuitively I'd still like an alternative to the ethanol as a preservative and feel there's more immediate leeway for improving the scalp skin barrier and therefore the endogenous nutrient homeostasis. I don't want to obtain and store every possible substance but still perhaps blend in either something like those apple polyphenols or flavonoids like apigenin as a complementary (and definitely non-smelly) HDACi.
Another thought is, that if there's a reason to (always or specifically) suspect aforementioned inflammatory fungal influences I should really trial adding that pirocton olamine. Especially since the extra topical glucose would feed them too (and first).
@Gardner said:
So many ingredients . How are you going to pinpoint what exactly helps if anything helps?
The bottom list is still ideas to look through by me, or by you, or by any reader. Essentially, I'm currently only applying dextrose, LA, butyrate, KCl.
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@Gaston I want to correct my earlier comment in which I said that Alpha Ketoglutarate was odorous. It was actually potassium bicarbonate which was responsible for the odor. The L-Ornithine Alpha Ketoglutarate is very water soluble and has been easy to use, if anyone wants to try it.
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Peaty symptom: my scalp is consistently warm now… it used to always be cool.
I also massage my scalp 10 minutes a day.
The last few days it was hot to the touch!
In combo with massage I find the scalp even more pliable.
I just use dextrose, alcohol, and a few drops of glycerin (from coconut).
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@LetTheRedeemed said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
I just use dextrose, alcohol, and a few drops of glycerin (from coconut).
In what concentrations? Thanks
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@CrumblingCookie said in Reversal of hair loss in Mice with “sugar gel”:
Could it be that we are referring to the same observation? The kind of coating or dry, non-sticky look of greasiness I mean could also be described as a fashionable surfer-style to out-of-bed-look. I agree the hair feels and looks smooth and nice immediately after application, easy to comb and accentuate and antistatic, i.e non-frizzy.
That actually could be. As my hair is getting longer I like it less. Maybe it's better for short hair. Or maybe the cosmetic benefits lessen because I added potassium bicarbonate...will try it out.
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@wester130
Where did you see this for sale? -
ebay
there are 4 growband compression massagers I am aware of
cheap chinese version: 30 dollars
Renpho version: about 60 dollars
NNETM Scalp Massager: about 150 dollars
hairguard growband: 400 dollars
based on all of this, the Renpho compression scalp headband looks best
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@wester130 I do it by hand. I would suggest something that hits the whole top of the scalp. Ideally you get a wife to do it — God totally placed boobs and head hair in the perfect spot for many nights of turtledoving XD
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@CrumblingCookie i eyed it to approximate amounts as Mauritio’s comment.
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i disagree, pinching the top of your scalp is impossible, especially if it is already damaged by fibrosis
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@wester130 i think we’re talking about two different types of massage intensity. I began just rubbing by pushing my fingers to the top of the scalp to make it feel good, and trying to move the scalp from side to side, as if to stretch (pleasure is a good sign of a safe stimulation imo). With time, moving the scalp can become a small victory. I can now pinch my scalp skin between two fingers on my well rested days, but many days i cannot… i just rub my fingers on it and move the skin how ever much it will.
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Alright, everyone. I've a few new things to tell and stimulate further thoughts on across a couple of topics.
I've ordered various ingredients for blending a new, novel batch of enhanced glucose hair tonic. Which I hope to engage in and report of soon.
Wrt to the very good properties of butyrate, I've come to experience the downside:
After adding only a few drops of tocopherol to my previous mixture, the strong sour-buttery smell has appeared. It really lingers in the hair and clothing. It's not a good smell to go about with in daily life.
That is such a shame.
I'm thinking of replacing the butyrate with smell-neutral apigenin for similar effects.@Mauritio said:
Do you not get weird rancid butter smell from the butyrate. I have dropped it from the newest batch.
@CrumblingCookie said:
Not at all. I had also used the butyrate suspended in water on my arms before and it was fine. Smell-wise it only slightly lingers when blended into oils.
I have a lot to say about the different forms of (pro)vitamin B5 and the widespread problems from use of pantothenic acid in supplements and B-vitamin supplementation in general.
Here's something good and simple from weekly i.m. injections of 500mg dexpanthenol (pantothenol) in human females over the course of two months:
Systemic dexpanthenol as a novel treatment for female pattern hair loss. 2021- "As in the previous series, this study revealed that four-fifths of the patients reported that they observed increased hair growth with DXP."
- "The lack of a control group and the questionnaire-based study may lead to recall bias."
@Mauritio Add generous amounts of dexpanthenol to your blend?
Drink generous amounts of the 75% dexpanthenol liquid every day? It's not at all expensive from the cosmetic ingredient sources.For i.m. injections:
In or from France there's "Bepanthene 250mg/mL inj sol" by Bayer dissolved in pantolactone and water for about €10/6 vials. Very interestingly, it has an official, authorized use as adjunctive treatment of diffuse alopecia. Noone has ever given me that hint, ever.
It's also simple to make: Buy the pure powder or the pure liquid 75% D-dexpanthol cosmetic ingredient, add sterile NaCl as needed, pull up through a 200nm (or better, if you can find one) syringe filter and off we go. -
Pretty crazy regrowth in that first example. Interesting that dexpanthenol is sold in certain products as a wound healer. That tracks. Balding = wounding/inflammation on the scalp.
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“D-dexpanthol cosmetic ingredient, add sterile NaCl”
Could this not be effective topically applied with alcohol?
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@LetTheRedeemed said:
Could this not be effective topically applied with alcohol?
Of course! The topical range lies between 2-20% usually. The dexpanthenol salves for wounded skin usually always contain 5%. Contact allergies to it are reported as possible but very rare.
I'd like to apply about 20-50mg per use. Seeing that I commonly use 2.5-4.5ml of my blend per application this could be reached with a 1% dexpanthenol solution.
I presume DEX should be a more beneficial ingredient and of a higher priority than NMN (B3) and am curious about any interjection from Mauritio.
Because DEX readily oxidizes to PA once inside the cell we could even ascribe some direct antioxidant effects to that initial conversion on top of it increasing GSH synthesis after following conversion to CoA.
Side info on dexpanthenol:
DEX is already an alcohol by itself. It can be diluted in water. It has a hydroxyl end group instead of pantothenic's acid (PA) carboxyl group.
The crucial difference I found is that:-
DEX enters cells very easiyl by passive uptake, whereas PA relies on active uptake by shared vitamin transporters which severely limit the amount and whacks things out of balance.
I.e. the uptake mechanism of PA is competitive to large amounts of the other oral or systemic B-vitamins. Most reported is its competition to biotin uptake but folate and others are implicated just as much. -
In short, that's why for topical use we need DEX rather than PA,
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and why DEX is superior and the primary choice also for systemic and oral use. And why use of oral or systemic PA is indeed shite and far from sufficient nor good enough for many conditions.
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The 75% DEX liquid is a very thick, viscous gel.
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Diluted in water it spreads nicely on skin with a texture similar to glycerin, but is quickly and completely absorbed and leaves a "grippy" feel of the skin (as opposed to sticky).
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I tastes slightly sour, alcoholic-sweet. I'm going to drink it from now on at the rate of 2-3g/day. Very conveniently, the 75% DEX liquid is easily available and even considerably cheaper than what PA or DEX raw powders or supplements cost.
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