Glucose loading cures everything?

[S.Holmes]

@gentlepotato And the hating on sugar that permeates our culture (especially in alternative health people) certainly won't help us work toward solving this mystery. Dr. Stephens, in spite of the metaphors, may be way ahead of the curve on this. As for me, I know I won't rest until I find a good scientific explanation.

[S.Holmes]

@CrumblingCookie TBH, I seem to do better on sodium acetate. It raises Co2 levels which will trigger a release of oxygen (from hemoglobin). So just another way to obtain the same (or similar) outcome. At least as I understand it. And no nausea.

[S.Holmes]

I asked Dr Stephens his thoughts regarding mitochondria in the brain being unable to use glucose. He remains staunchly and confidently unwavering in his position that glucose will heal the brain, and everything else as well. I told him I was going to keep searching for the science to support his therapy and he was fine with that, of course.

[Jaffe]

What brand is everyone using?

Finished my Nutricost tub. After reading people’s poor experience with certain brands I’m now questioning my experience. What I thought was sensitivity to glucose may have been a quality control issue? Was never able to go above 3tbsp.

Got very good mental effects from it, but the on/off bloating and nausea limited enjoyment. Experiment is on hold for now.

I guess the name of the game is buy different brands until you find one that agrees with you. Great lol.

[S.Holmes]

@Jaffe said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

What brand is everyone using?

Finished my Nutricost tub. After reading people’s poor experience with certain brands I’m now questioning my experience. What I thought was sensitivity to glucose may have been a quality control issue? Was never able to go above 3tbsp.

Got very good mental effects from it, but the on/off bloating and nausea limited enjoyment. Experiment is on hold for now.

I guess the name of the game is buy different brands until you find one that agrees with you. Great lol.

I still had bad nausea and the worst heartburn I've ever had (for about a week) on the higher quality brands. I pushed through but it wasn't fun. (Sodium bicarb helped with the heartburn.) They're both MUCH better now so I think it may have been a herx reaction (in my case). I'm at 6 Tbsps per bolus now.

[gentlepotato]

@S-Holmes said in Glucose loading cures everything?:

@gentlepotato And the hating on sugar that permeates our culture (especially in alternative health people) certainly won't help us work toward solving this mystery. Dr. Stephens, in spite of the metaphors, may be way ahead of the curve on this. As for me, I know I won't rest until I find a good scientific explanation.

In the One of one's episode Dr. Stephens agreed with the host that white sugar is "bad sugar", so I don't think he's ahead of the curve on that one. Have any of you told him about Ray Peat or the pro metabolic principles? I'd be curious to hear how he responds to Peat's thoughts.

@Jaffe
I'm using a brand called Urtegaarden. It's Danish, and I live in Europe, not sure if it's available on other continents. It's great quality from what I can tell, but that said, when I did high doses I was also nauseous. When I tried 3 tbsp at once I also got very nauseous, perhaps because my BG spiked. So I would think the doses are making people nauseous, rather than the brand.

[S.Holmes]

@gentlepotato

I watched that one too and I believe what he meant was it isn't helpful in the context of the brain healing therapy that uses pure glucose (sucrose won't work), but not that sugar is bad in general. I've mentioned Dr Peat to him in our consultations and we've discussed how the prevailing anti-sugar sentiment is a hindrance to healing.

He says that glucose therapy isn't always smooth sailing. I hope my friends here won't give up too soon!

[A Former User]

@evan-hinkle cant the same thing be achieved by eating any form of starch or sugar regularly? provided digestion handles it. like why wouldnt this work with honey or juice? what's special about glucose?

[CrumblingCookie]

@Bling5
Starches need way more digestive power and functioning which one may have lost below a point that is needed. The full reasoning of why starches don't work nearly as well lie, however, still in the mist.
All what is known and said is that at some point (about 6 months in or later, or gradually sooner), eating starches and eating generally enough becomes self-sufficient again.
So nobody's planning to continue drinking glucose until the end of her or his life, yet.
Sugar=Sucrose/Glucose-Fructose is not the same at all.
Honey (Glucose, Fructose, +stuff) is not the same either and the higher the fructose content of the type of honey the worse it is. I had eaten kilograms of honey before doing glucose. As in a lb jar per day, up to half a jar at a time. I had done that because it sort of kept me afloat but at the same time the fructose was super stressful and counteracting.

[S.Holmes]

Whew! A couple of emotional days! OMG. I went ahead and increased to 7 Tbsps per bolus today. I needed a little encouragement so had a short appointment with Dr Stephens. I've also been struggling with nausea and gerd. One important thing he mentioned was that as our brain prioritizes healing it seems the GI tract is at the end of the list. But I'm sleeping like a baby with only glucose in a little choc milk at bedtime...no sleep aid required. Pressing on!

[CrumblingCookie]

@S-Holmes
Good news! So you just pushed past your previous subjective nausea thresold?

Here's the concept of my dextrose troubleshooting guide with no claim to universal validity:

Situation: 
Can't increase serving size because of nausea or GI upset or terrible taste

Solution:
• Impure production batch/brand of dextrose. Switch to other brand.
• More time needed at the previous serving size and smaller increments because of a (still) very low rate of glucose utilization. 
• Improve cellular glucose uptake: Potassium, chloride, taurine. 
• Just push past and substantially increase the serving size because it's normal to have your upper bowels rearranged in the beginning as they gradually get access to glucose and start to function.

Situation: 
Dextrose not working sufficiently with cravings for more dextrose right after a serving. 

Solution:
• Improve glucose utilization (citric acid cycle): 
* Add thiamin +-10mg and pyridoxin 0.5-1mg, biotin +-50mcg, niacin(amide) +-10mg and riboflavin +-4mg. 
* Add magnesium if your levels are known to be low becaus lack of Mg can be a limiting cofactor for shifting the electrons in the citric acid cycle.  

Situation:
Dextrose not working sufficiently with servings sizes already very high and no cravings for more dextrose.

Solution:
• Do not undereat. Maintain a daily diet of basic foods for a sane amount of macro- (protein, calcium) and micronutrients. 
• Improve tissue and/or cellular oxygenation:
* (Light exercise, light walking in fresh air)
* (Lymphatic massage)
* (Vibration plate)
* Use H202: Orally every day. Intravenously. Baths. 

Any one adaptation can raise the need for one of the other.

[S.Holmes]

@CrumblingCookie Looks good! The nausea seems to be fading away and my appetite has recovered.

Dr Stephens said to take the entire dose within 30 minutes so I try to do that. I still need it diluted to more than 1 oz of liquid per tbsp, but I figure it's best to get it down any way I can than not at all.

My husband is on it too (4 tbsps) and doing well. His mood swings are better controlled. I can tell when he is low on glucose, which is good since unlike myself he really can't, so when I notice that the grumpy, irritable man is back in the room I ask how long since his last dose. His answer is always "it's time for another." Lol

[S.Holmes]

I told a friend about Dr Stephens and she has asked him to speak at her health seminar next month. She has a donkey dairy and provides milk to kids with autism. Looking forward to seeing him in person!

[S.Holmes]

Is anyone still following this thread? If not I won't spend more time on it. It seems helpful discussion has dwindled. It's ok. It happens. Just want to make the best use of my time.

[happyhanneke]

@S-Holmes
I’d like to see updates on how it’s going with the ones trying this out.
I stopped for now because I’m not ready to eat the much glucose. I need to get used to allowing myself to eat sugar/carbs without guilt.
I definitely want to try it again later on

[Ben.]

@happyhanneke

after 1,5 months i had to stop. my chronic inflammation symptoms got worse and worse.
I also cant tolerate the nausea at certain dosages anymore.

however the energy and brain benefits are incredible. My conclusion right now is to use it for workouts or high stress situations. Thats where its an amazing tool. Or for thoose days were brainfog and groggyness keeps me down its also a godsent.

Great great tool to have. Woudnt recommend it daily for someone like me with chronic inflammation/infection tho.

Keep in mind this is just my anecdote/observation

[S.Holmes]

It certainly isn't easy, and some of us really do have inflammation to deal with. I do, my husband doesn't. Glucose is so easy for him. It also makes me tired, but Dr Stephens wasn't surprised by that.

I'll keep posting updates. I hope others will too.

[CrumblingCookie]

@Ben
Are you experienced in being able to discern whether that much glucose fed your infections or whether it acted directly immunostimulatory on your preexisting infection levels?
Either way there'd be more immune activity involved, but the first would be bad whereas the latter - if kept in a sensible and safe range - could be regarded as a necessary evil to go through?

@S-Holmes
That was a suprisingly easy fix for you to simply dilute your glucose in more water! I wonder, are you perhaps generally prone to not drinking sufficiently every day?

For a couple of days I thought I could lower my dextrose servings to 50grs (down from 80-100) as an effect of the H202. That was wrong and much too low, I noticed. 70grs work well, though.
A few times I've now blended my dextrose serving with the diluted H202 in distilled water and must say: That's refreshing! Takes away the slight "taste" of the H202 and it feels like an enhanced way to take glucose. Curiously, so far, it even completely removed every hint of nausea by the H202. They don't seem to react with each other and by what I've read all the H202 IVs are usually being done in glucose solutions.

@GlucoseOrBust
Any news on the effects of your megaservings?

[Ben.]

@CrumblingCookie

No how could i? But there is always a reason for inflammation no?

all i can say is that energy is better on it with the downside of increased inflammation/accelerated aging.

Some symptoms are better, some are worse.
If it were acute sideffects i might consider pushing trough, if it is making existing issues worse then i have no reason to believe that "pushing trough" is the right course of action.

[marmalade_cat]

Hi to everyone. I am new to this forum and signed up just to reply on this thread. This is a l-o-n-g post.

I started the glucose protocol about 2 months ago, and found this forum after googling to find information on others trying the same thing.

Really appreciate all the valuable information and insights shared here . I slowly worked my way through from the beginning to the end.

This is my experience so far:
INTRODUCTION
Starting my third month on dextrose. 55 year old woman. low carb-ish for many years. Intermittent fasting, lots of cardio etc etc. (I know I know !!) Was strict carnivore for about 6 months, up to about 5-6 months ago, when came across Ray Peat, and slowly started introducing fruit and honey (built up to about 50-75g carbs a day).

I don't recall any concussions, but had traumatic and abusive childhood.

SYMPTOMS/CONDITIONS I'M HOPING TO HAVE RESOLVED:
a) long standing

hypothyroidism (with most of the symptoms eg low basal temp, extremely low pulse, cold hands and feet, high cholesterol, eye-brows, etc)
low haemoglobin
hyperhidrosis
dysregulated nervous system. Chronic survival mode

b) started in my 40's

brain fog**
hair loss/thinning**
low energy, fatigue**
xanthalasma
lipoma on the side of my neck
hyper pigmentation in face
Excruciating itching after shower or bath (started with cold plunging and then started happening even with warm water). No sign of rash or red skin or any other outbreak
weight gain
mind going blank, can't recall words, names for a moment
high ferritin

** resolved or reduced with other interventions before glucose

c) Psycho-emotional symptoms

Unworthiness, toxic shame, hyper-self criticism and self condemnation. Punitive self talk
Chronic anxiety
Depression

OTHER INTERVENTIONS/SUPPLEMENTS/MEDICATIONS

lugols iodine
NDT (slowly reducing dose. Currently on 1/2 grain. was as high as 4 grain)
Magnesium powder and potassium powder
epsom salt foot baths
calcium (egg shells)
infra red light therapy
circadian biology practices (eg block blue light, sunrise/sunset , sun exposure, eat only in daylight hours, grounding, etc)
sauna
Meditation/yoga nidra

GLUCOSE LOADING

take in small amount of water, plus lemon juice and pinch of salt

GLUCOSE LOADING so far

roughly followed his book recommendation, starting at round 24g X 4 times a day..adding about 8 -10 grams per week, or depending on how I react
switched to 3 times a day
experienced slight nausea occasionally, briefly after consuming glucose, but it would disappear after a couple of days.
Noticed fasting glucose was decreasing (i was normally about midway of normal range). but now it was slowly moving to the lower end of normal.
reached 80g X 3 times a day, and started experiencing unsettling symptoms about 40-60 mins after consuming glucose and meal: headaches, jittery, brain fog, weak, ravenously hunger after eating a large meal plus glucose). I was randomly testing blood sugar, and saw my blood sugar was plummeting, as low as 3.2. I must admit it was freaking me out. Would wake up in the middle of the night in cold sweat, pounding headache, mind racing, ravenously hungry, gripped with fear, etc). Then realised these were hypoglycemic symptoms and that cortisol spike was waking me up. Please note that I was consuming the glucose drink with meals (animal protein and animal fat). Also dissolved in milk before bed sometimes.

I managed to get a brief slot with Dr Stephens, who suggested that I need to eat more (I had tried to reduce non dextrose calories because of weight gain), and also that I possibly moved up too quickly to 80g.

I reduced to 60g x 3 times a day again, and increased food intake. I am eating almost normal calorie food PLUS dextrose.

Then slowly moved to 80g again, and the hypoglycemic symptoms returned.

Thanks to this thread, I found an article on REACTIVE HYPOGLYCEMIA, which is what I believe was happening to me. I wonder whether some of the symptoms being noted by others on the protocol could also be due to REACTIVE HYPOGLYCEMIA. Please note I am not diabetic.

I then decided to try increasing the frequency of dosing. I am now at 70g x 5 times a day. with no noticeable hypoglyemia symptoms.

I am tracking body temp and pulse. My waking temp is currently 36.3C (it was lower before), with daytime temp rising to optimal 37.0 to 37.1C. Even though it drops gain after sunset, this is very encouraging! All while reducing NDT. The curious thing I've noticed is that even when daytime temps are normal, I still experience extremely cold hands and feet (we are also coming out of winter in my part of the world).

My pulse has not improved at all. Its low to mid 50's, sometimes going as low as 47.

I have not yet had relief of the physical symptoms. Regarding the psycho-emotional issues, they are so subjective, I'm not sure (yet). There are times when I feel a more positive mood, but not sure if this is due to the glucose or other interventions (eg therapy).

On the downside, I have gained about 6-7kgs over the last 2 months of dextrose. This is the heaviest I've ever been, and it feels very uncomfortable. Part of it may be water retention - I do feel very bloated. Not sure if my carnivore, low carb history is a contributing factor here.

Comments and insights welcome!