Posts made by vocedilegno

@lulueatsmeat T4 is a longer term, slower acting molecule which addresses dysfunction of the thyroid gland itself, mostly, and can make things worse without T3; I suspect because of your history which was similar to mine, this is a simple liver glycogen issue. So, as a (hopefully) one-time thing to knock the system back into balance, T3 makes a lot more sense. I don’t take t3 any more and I’ve never taken t4. I’ve only taken t3 at that ~6.25mcg dose 2-3 times in total (around 2016) to help with sleep. It made me feel amazing immediately, completely shut down stress and made me warm and peaceful. And then my sleep was back on track forever after that. But you must must must take it with a good amount of some kind of carbohydrate otherwise you definitely will have a stress reaction. Mexican Coke worked well when I took it. I imagine fructose-heavy carbs work best so the liver can have first crack at absorbing the carbohydrate and storing it for the overnight sleep.

Peat said magnesium glycinate is the only oral form he knew about which didn’t give people bad reactions or digestive upset. Epsom salt bathing definitely makes a positive difference for me and I do it often. Never tried transdermal magnesium spray but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. Best of luck!

Sorry for above post. Yes I understand now it is the steroids which are doing this to you. Yes it’s excess estrogen. Peat said estrogen was responsible for libido (weight loss for women podcast “the estrogen industry” 14:52)) and for leakiness of blood vessels, so it explains the sneezing blood as well.

Peat said 1mg makes more sense as a dose with healthy young men making about 2-3mg daily if memory serves, and so he thought 100mg was “ridiculous” so what you took was definitely a crazy amount. I’ve read that bodybuilders take many times more though, like 5,000mg.

This will calm down, but for the time being natural aromatase inhibitors like white button mushrooms (and maybe aspirin?) should give some relief and maybe help speed things along too. And b-vitamins especially vitamin b1 and b2 which are essential for the liver’s estrogen detox process would be very important to get the estrogen out of your system as well. It will wear off, don’t worry.

@2500man i used to think getting LH higher was a goal and I might have done this 10 years ago if I had found out about these peptides, I definitely would have thought it was the answer too. Later I found out that Peat thought LH and FSH were irritating pro-fibrotic hormones like all the rest of the pituitary hormones. Sorry to hear what you’re going through.

The peptides have doubtless activated the pituitary as that’s their mechanism of action from what you’ve shared with us. Please someone let me know if I’m off-base with this but I would expect Ray would say that lowering estrogen at the synthesis and receptor levels with thyroid and progesterone would tend to calm down the pituitary excitation, and that thyroid is the main thing for reducing pituitary activity. Maybe get other pituitary hormones like TSH and prolactin checked as well to see if the peptides have affected them too? Do you have any info about how long the stimulating effect of the peptides is supposed to last?

@lulueatsmeat the most likely thing is that liver glycogen synthase has been inactivated because of the carb deprivation from your carnivore dieting. Carbs and T3 likely the solution. About 10 years ago I did keto and intermittent fasting for long enough that I got myself into an insomnia loop waking up at 3:00 every night with a cortisol/adrenaline rush and this went on for over a year. The only thing that broke the fight-or-flight cycle was 1/4 of a cynomel pill (~6.25mcg of T3) and Mexican Coke taken around 7 or 8 pm. That made me sleep through the night for the first time in over a year and then things started becoming normal again. Once you break out of the high adrenaline/hypothyroid cycle you can start to fix the rest.

If you do this make sure you have enough magnesium in your system so you don’t get heart pain. This amount of t3 is a small dose but it can still be very powerful. Peat and T3uncoupled talk about some people experiencing this if they are magnesium deficient. Peat talks about it on the weight loss for women podcast and T3 uncoupled mentions it in one of their earlier substack articles. You can drink milk and eat cocoa and other high magnesium foods but I am thinking an Epsom salt bath might be the most surefire way.

This is interesting, not sure if it would be a similar process to adding DHEA to Progest-E — Danny a Roddy made a video about how to do that — or if the DHT has different solubility

Broda Barnes “Hope for hypoglycemia - it’s not your mind, it’s your liver!”
Hans Selye “the stress of life”, “textbook of endocrinology”
McGavack “The Thyroid”

And if you can find anything by Gilbert Ling and/or Albert Szent Gyorgi

For starters

@Peatly thank you so much

@Amazoniac wow, this is fantastic. Thank you so much

@Peatly by the way, your signature quote is absolutely fantastic and explains so much about certain people I’ve encountered in my life. Thank you

@Ecstatic_Hamster this is fascinating. Where did you hear of this?

@chosroes glad to hear it’s been helping!

@Peatly looking it over again, it does seem that it’s from personal correspondence, doesn’t it. In which case I would agree that it’s likely a very context-specific advice to have the beta-blocker on hand

It’s always seemed clear to me that T3Uncoupled knows and loves Peat’s work more deeply than most of us, and that’s the only reason I didn’t question it or hunt down the primary source.

Corroborating the utility of the idea, a friend of mine experimented with T3 (Cynomel) for his high cholesterol not more than a couple of months ago at my suggestion and had very off-putting heart palpitations. That happened before I had come across the article we’re discussing, perhaps just before T3Uncoupled had published it.

@Ray-Peat-Fanboy this is a clear case-in-point of the CO2-climate change hypothesis as a depopulation psyop

On the other hand there is the question of which type of human contributes more CO2 to the ecosystem — the healthy person who also retains CO2 well, or the stressed person who blows too much of it out all the time?

Regarding the notion of CO2 as a Lewis acid, GE podcast episode 35 is one of my top candidates for best episode of all time

@Peatly I also heard it that progesterone is what prevents estrogenic activity of DHEA, not the other way around. I got the bit about Peat recommending beta blockers for first time T3 use from https://t3uncoupled.substack.com/p/thyroid-supplementation-simplified

@herayclitus check out Brad Marshall’s YouTube channel (fireinabottle). He shows how not even only tryptophan/methionine/cysteine slow metabolism as Ray said, but that BCAAs actually increase fat oxidation! Which can be a disaster in excess!!

@Ray-Peat-Fanboy if you are in a situation where you’re pressed to give a good defense of it, you could talk about how mitochondrial glucose oxidation generates much more CO2 than fat oxidation, and how CO2 is a Lewis acid fortifying the acidity of the amino acids which constitute the proteins which make up the tissues and organs of the body. (Generative Energy #35)

Defending sugar against starch you could bring up endotoxin and big insulin swings which cause hypoglycemic stress and aromatase activation, for example. But then that leads to the “estrogen is bad” conversation which is another uphill battle

@Jakeandpace I had thought of Niacinamide and had meant to include it in my above reply, thanks for that!! As Georgi has shown, Niacinamide is a great fatty acid oxidation inhibitor. FWIW I’ve had amazing results with higher doses, 500mg (Thorne brand).

@pineapple WARNING: I can imagine a situation where if you take Niacinamide WITH T3, blocking fatty acid oxidation, and also opposing the effects of cortisol, you could have a hypoglycemic crisis and become very uncomfortable in not even the worst case. So be careful. I’m thinking the experience could be similar to when I dropped 12 drops of Pyrucet in my navel in the morning without any food and had the most severe adrenaline reaction I’ve ever had in my life — nuts pulled up so hard against my body and I was panicking like crazy. Or it could be like the bodybuilders who die of hypoglycemic coma from taking insulin not knowing they have to eat carbs when they inject it.

@pineapple also curious why you take T3? Do you have low pulse and/or temperature? Is it possible that you are already in great health with good thyroid function and therefore don’t need T3?

Do you get hypoglycemic symptoms as well when you take T3?

I suspect that the T3 is elevating FFA or stressing you out in some way. T3 is known to be “permissive” of adrenaline and other catecholamines which is why Peat mentioned some people needing to take a beta-blocker with T3 when experimenting with it for the first time (hat-tip to T3Uncoupled for that info). Adrenaline can cause high FFA which in turn, I’m guessing, will lead to higher estrogen and probably prolactin as well.

In a similar vein, and in line with Verdad’s reply above, Broda Barnes recommended the use of cortisone along with NDT for those prone to suffering from hypoglycemia while using thyroid. I can’t remember whether that was from “Hope for Hypoglycemia/It’s Not your Mind, It’s Your Liver!” or “Hypothyroidism: The unsuspected illness” but I remember it clearly and those are the two books of his which I own.

@chosroes probably no reason to worry! Do you feel good, energetic, mentally clear? Nothing affected negatively?

Peat advised 150 IU during weight loss to prevent metabolic/mitochondrial damage if memory serves.

@peatolish +1 to Progest-E but as Peat cautioned it’s important to make sure your vitamin D level and calcium intake are high enough to avoid activation of certain estrogen-producing enzymes (7-keto I think was in the name) by the progesterone. If you’re not sure then vitamin E might be safer to start with. Or maybe the vitamin E in the Progest-E obviates the risk, it would be good to go back and check what Ray said.

FWIW what you’re describing sounds similar to something I have on the left side of my nose which tingles like it’s growing whenever estrogen or prolactin are rising, if I consume TocoVit or slather it on the skin the tingles go away.