@CrumblingCookie said in Oxalobacter formigens after guts nuked by antibiotics. Sources? Possibilities?:
@yerrag I appreciate your taking time and thoughts to reply on my issue.
I suppose the pinnacle of internalized cell-wall-deficient pathogens would be pseudo-Crohns, i.e. Mycobacterium Avium Comple (MAC). As far as I understand, that's very difficult to diagnose, however, only by wary application of histopathologic methods on biopsies taken from the right spots in the GI tract - if those can be reached at all.
Yes, I've thought of fungal forms but at least as far as "true" fungi are concerned, there was nothing detectable in my stools: No substantial amount of candida strains were detectable.
Nor any of the typically recognized GI pathogens (by multiplex PCR).
So I have no suspects in specific pathogens.
I doubt you would go far using standard lab procedures to identify pathogens. I stopped relying on these labs that have the appearance of being; thorough, but their methods are archaic and leave us with false negatives and false positives. I would rather go with my guesswork. But truth be told, the medical standard does not care to use live blood analysis, and lose out plenty of detail in identifying fungal strains.
I would rather upgrade microscope so it is capable of darkfield microscopy so I can learn something relevant and practical and useful, than rely on outdated microbiological theory and diagnostics that is part and parcel of the current medical system.
I'll give some days of oral turpentine a go. As I subjectively recall that stuff really diffuses into every capillary and I deem it worth a try.
It's worth a shot.
@yerrag said:
Of course, there is the use of fecal transplants but this is one I would consider only out of desperation. I would rather that I share a glass of water with my pet cat or dog, in the hope that I can get some of the bacteria from them. But if the bacteria I want is an obligated anaerobe, it would be hard to obtain that bacteria this way.
I found out that finding obligate anaerobes, pairing them up with symbiotic strains and training them to become somewhat oxygen-tolerant for increased survival and transplanation falls into the coined term of "next-generation probiotics".
There's no availability to be expected anytime soon. It's all in-vitro and animal research.Stool transplants aside maybe the only way to get back those crucial anaerobes is to drink water straight from wild, clean streams and to eat fresh, raw fruits and vegetables taken from healthy soils with has not been fertilized with manure.
I.e. produce from a idyllic, healthy, original off-the-grid life.I'll go look for the best I can find in fresh, "dirty" (soil attached) root vegetables to eat in a raw state without much cleaning up.
The likelihood's high I'll just catch a serious enteral pathogen if I followed that approach with above-ground vegetables like salads. The anaerobes ought to be below ground, in the soil, of course.
Right!
I learned that if you wanted to make sourdough bread it is easy to get the starter by exposing leftover rice wash to the air for a few days, and come up with a starter culture of lactobacillus to make the sourdough.
If you put this wash in the middle of a forest that is pristine, the starter culture would be far more diverse in the strains of lactobacillus and other microbes.
And I wonder if this would a good way to get the strain of anaerobe you are looking for.
The only article I could find on this approach is this one (I find it's a good study):
The edible plant microbiome: evidence for the occurrence of fruit and vegetable bacteria in the human gut
https://doi.org/10.1080/19490976.2023.2258565
Unfortunately, the number-coded fruit&veg of that study are not further described in the supplemental material.
It's very interesting that they found a qualitative average of 2% of the excreted human microbiome to be identical with the bacteria present in and on eaten fruit&veg. The authors say that it can be up to 13% of the whole bacterial diversity attributable to eaten plants.
Those bacteria present in plant foods definitely settle in the human gut.
That's also interesting.