*) Useful nutrients for thyroid: Se I Zn Mg and Fe for enzyme TPO Selenium (Se), Iodine (I), Zinc (Zn), and Magnesium (Mg) are vital trace elements and minerals that support thyroid hormone synthesis, conversion, and cellular regulation. [1, 2, 3] Roles of Each Nutrient • Selenium (Se): Powers the enzymes (deiodinases) responsible for converting inactive T4 into active T3 hormone, and acts as an antioxidant protecting the thyroid from oxidative damage. [1, 2] • Iodine (I): Acts as the fundamental raw building block required by the thyroid gland to manufacture T4 and T3. [1] Never take an iodine supplement, without staples and after all without having first replenish with selenium. Follow a protocol to avoid a backfire. • Zinc (Zn): Assists the brain in sensing hormone levels, supports T4-to-T3 conversion, and helps thyroid hormones bind to cell receptors. [1, 2, 3] • Magnesium (Mg): Aids in overall energy production, helps regulate and lower elevated TSH levels, and supports cellular hormone activation. [1, 2] Useful nutrients for DIO enzymes Here is the chronological, step-by-step story of how thyroid hormones are handled by the body. Written with help of AI (ChatGPT) to set in order. The Normal State (Euthyroid) In a healthy, nutrient-replete body, the thyroid axis operates like a well-oiled factory: The Factory Line (Thyroid Gland): The thyroid gland extracts Iodine from the blood. Using the enzyme Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO), it binds iodine to tyrosine to manufacture T4 (about 80–90%) and a tiny bit of T3 (about 10–20%). [1, 2, 3, 4] If you don’t live near the seacoast (< 50 Km) and don’t eat fish or seafood you lack iodine. NB: Woman's breasts and a man's prostate will not receive much of this iodine, as it is primarily sequestered or diverted by the thyroid. Guess now what kind of risk that entails… The Shipping Yard (The Bloodstream Pool): The thyroid dumps these hormones into the blood. The T4 travels throughout the body as an inactive storage hormone. To make the blood pool rich in active T3, the liver and kidneys use DIO-1 enzymes to convert T4 into T3. This liver/kidney conversion accounts for 80% of the active T3 floating in the blood pool. [1, 2, 3, 4] The Local Customers (Muscles & Tissues): Skeletal muscles pull what they need from two sources to maintain a 50/50 balance: o 50% is absorbed directly as pre-made T3 from the blood pool. o 50% is absorbed as T4, which the muscle internally converts into active T3 using its own DIO-2 enzymes. The Power Plant (Mitochondria): Once inside the muscle cells, T3 binds to nuclear receptors, ordering the mitochondria to produce ATP (energy) and heat. Magnesium acts as the essential spark plug required to synthesize and utilize that ATP. [1, 2, 3, 4] Remember that magnesium is used by at least 360 enzyme reactions, as often mentioned. Current enzymatic databases have identified over 600 enzymes that require magnesium to function, plus another 200 that need it for activation. [1, 2] To summarize one caveat (for me, LucH): The whole thing (+/ 85%) depends on T4 formation, depending on iodine and the enzyme TPO. Here we have hit the exact nail on the head. No matter how much selenium, zinc, or magnesium a person takes to optimize their conversion enzymes (DIO-1 and DIO-2), those enzymes are entirely useless if they have no T4 raw material to work on. And as we noted, T4 production depends entirely on the availability of Iodine and the functionality of the Iron-dependent TPO enzyme. When taking a synthetic T4 supplement for thyroid, individuals often feel better and improve their energy level but it doesn't last because of a lack of cofactors. Depleted Reserves: An initial dose of T4 provides a temporary boost. However, it quickly depletes your body's existing nutrient reserves, stalling the conversion process and causing symptoms of fatigue to return. [1, 2] Master Post: Why Your Thyroid Medication Fails Without Cellular Cofactors Many thyroid patients—especially those taking synthetic T4 (Levothyroxine) or T3 (Cytomel)—experience a frustrating paradox: their blood work looks perfect, but they still feel exhausted, cold, and weak, again, if we leave aside the temporary improvement. The reason? Tissue-level hypothyroidism. Taking synthetic hormones is only half the battle. If your body lacks the specific nutritional cofactors required to manufacture, convert, and absorb those hormones, the medication simply floats in your bloodstream completely useless to your cells. Here is the step-by-step chronological story of how thyroid hormones travel through your body, where they get blocked by deficiencies, and how to fix it. Step 1: The Factory Bottleneck (T4 Production) Before a single drop of active hormone can be used, the thyroid gland must manufacture T4. • The Process: The thyroid gland uses an enzyme called Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) to bind Iodine to tyrosine. • The Required Cofactors: Iodine and Iron (Fe). TPO is a heme-dependent protein, meaning it literally requires iron as its structural engine. • The Failure State: If you lack iron or iodine, the factory shuts down. Vegan Caveat: Because non-heme (plant) iron has a very poor absorption rate, vegans are more likely to suffer from a TPO factory shutdown. If your body cannot produce or process T4, the rest of the downstream system collapses. Step 2: The Shipping Yard (Systemic Blood Conversion) The thyroid gland's direct output is roughly 80–90% inactive T4. To create the pool of active T3 in your bloodstream, your liver and kidneys must step in. • The Process: The liver and kidneys use DIO-1 (Deiodinase-1) enzymes to strip an iodine molecule from T4, turning it into active T3. This creates 80% of the circulating T3 pool in your blood. • The Required Cofactor: Selenium (Se). DIO enzymes are selenoproteins made of selenocysteine. • The Failure State: If you are deficient in Selenium, DIO-1 fails. The pool of active T3 in your bloodstream dries up. NB: When the body faces an overload of toxic metals or a depletion of its antioxidant reserves, available selenium is consumed in large quantities to neutralize these stressors, potentially leading to an induced deficiency affecting other vital functions (such as thyroid hormone synthesis). RDA: Approximately 70 µg/day for an adult. 100 µg as a course of treatment, but not daily—except in specific cases. Too much of a good thing becomes bad. ️ Step 3: The Local Deliveries (Skeletal Muscle Conversion) Your muscles require massive amounts of energy, maintaining their internal T3 levels via a 50/50 balance: 50% is absorbed directly as pre-made T3 from the blood pool, and 50% is converted locally inside the muscle from T4. • The Process: Muscles pull inactive T4 from the blood and use DIO-2 enzymes to convert it into active T3 on-demand. • The Required Cofactors: Selenium (Se) and Zinc (Zn). • The Failure State: When blood T3 is low, muscles try to compensate by increasing DIO-2 activity. But if you lack Selenium, the muscle cannot build the DIO-2 enzyme. The backup plan fails. The unconverted T4 shunts down the path of least resistance, turning into Reverse T3 (rT3)—an inactive molecule that blocks your receptors and worsens fatigue. Step 4: The Cellular Gatekeepers (Receptor Binding) Once active T3 finally arrives at your cells, it faces a locked door. It must bind to the Thyroid Hormone Receptor (THR) inside the cell nucleus to deliver its metabolic message. • The Required Cofactors: Zinc (Zn) and Vitamin A (Active Retinol). Zinc forms the structural "zinc fingers" of the receptor so the hormone can fit the lock. Vitamin A allows the receptor to successfully talk to your DNA. • The Failure State: Without Zinc or Vitamin A, the receptors deform. T3 is completely locked out of the cell. You remain symptomatic even if your blood levels are flooded with T3. Step 5: The Power Plant (Mitochondrial Spark) Once the message successfully passes the gatekeepers, the cell commands its mitochondria to generate energy (ATP) and heat. • The Required Cofactors: Magnesium (Mg) and Iron (Fe). • The Failure State: Magnesium is the ultimate spark plug required to synthesize and utilize ATP. Without it, you experience profound muscle fatigue, weakness, and cramps. Furthermore, a lack of magnesium impairs the pituitary gland, frequently driving TSH higher. ️ The Action Plan: How to Fix the Gaps To ensure your thyroid therapy actually reaches your cells, target these specific dietary fixes: 🥩 For Omnivores: The Ultimate Thyroid Superfood Dietary sources such as poultry liver provide nutritional compounds containing bioavailable iron, zinc, selenium, and pre-formed vitamin A. For Vegans & Poor Converters (The Vitamin A Trap)* Many people over 45 years old possess a genetic slowdown that allows them to convert only about 15% of plant-based beta-carotene (from carrots/sweet potatoes) into active Vitamin A. Vegans cannot eat liver to bypass this. • The Protocol: Supplementation with retinyl palmitate is sometimes utilized under professional guidance, often taken with dietary fats to assist the absorption of fat-soluble nutrients. LucH says: I would advise them to take 5000 UI Retinyl palmitate twice a week. At breakfast with some fat. Essential Cofactors Needed for T4-to-T3 Conversion • Selenium: A vital mineral and enzymatic cofactor required to manufacture thyroid hormones and assist in conversion. [1, 2] • Iron (Ferritin): Low iron storage impairs the enzymes responsible for activating thyroid hormones. [1, 2] • Zinc and Copper: Critical minerals that support the deiodinase enzymes responsible for turning T4 into T3. [1] • Vitamin D and B Vitamins: Necessary for cellular energy production, immune regulation, and proper hormone receptor function. [1, 2, 3]

I tried livagen (or whichever the liver one is) can’t say I noticed anything, (like better glycogen storage or more working capacity before dipping into stores) but that said, those versed in the stuff say you won’t really “feel” it. I think before trying anymore I’d want to research some markers and do some before and after testing, (otherwise I think it’s kinda on faith). Just my experience

@jamezb46 is it not more likely that this is merely increased excretion rather than increased absorption?

@lobotomize Good framework, though the evidence-grade weighting in the default sort might bury solid animal/mechanistic work under mediocre human studies. Letting people re-weight it themselves could help. Bigger gap: how do contested claims get handled? If a newer RCT contradicts an older one, does the old card get flagged/archived, or do they just sit side by side? That seems like the whole point of avoiding rediscovery. Also worth adding a required sample size field to the submission template — two "Evidence B" studies can carry very different weight depending on n, and that gets lost if it's folded into the letter grade alone. Export for meta-analysis is a nice touch though.

I got some camu camu powder today and put 1/4 tap in some OJ and the effects are nice. Calming energy. And seems to perhaps prevented this late afternoon histamine release I get sometimes. I live in one of the worst cities in the world for seasonal allergies. I will continue with the smaller 100mg doses.

@Peat-OPeat-O Pregnenolone being the "mother hormone" gives you more buffer than something more downstream/receptor-active. That said, I wouldn't treat any specific numbers in this thread as a fixed protocol. Response varies a lot person to person depending on thyroid, liver clearance, existing hormone levels, etc. If you're totally new, I'd start smaller than anything mentioned above, go slow, and ideally get some baseline labs so you're not just going off how you feel. Source quality matters too, worth doing some digging before committing to a supplier long-term.

@PrinceTrebata If you mean which has the least contaminants, nobody knows 100% for sure. In a recent thread on the issue somebody recommended Zen Principles brand to me saying that of all the brands they queried about heavy metal contamination theirs had the least. https://bioenergetic.forum/topic/3063/gelatin/9

Does anyone know what type of B1 Peat recommended? HCL? He never seemed to specify.

@wester130 because then you get the bad effects associated with cabergoline, which don't exist with bromocriptine

@LucH said: I can develop if interested how I would manage. Yes I would be interested in your methodology...

Interesting find. I read through the study Danny linked and it does look promising, though it's worth remembering it was done in mice, not humans, so the jump to "here's how to lose weight" is a bit of a stretch until there's human trial data backing it up. The RMR angle makes sense with what's been observed in other calorie restriction studies though, where the body tends to adapt by slowing down. If methionine/cysteine restriction sidesteps that adaptive response, that would actually be a meaningful difference mechanistically. One thing I'd be curious about is how this plays out long term. Both methionine and cysteine are still essential, cysteine especially plays into glutathione production, so there's probably a sweet spot rather than "lower is always better." The chart is a handy reference for where different foods land, but I'd treat it as a general guide rather than something to follow strictly, especially for anyone already eating a fairly balanced diet. Has anyone here actually tried adjusting their protein sources around this and noticed a real difference in energy or body temp?

@sunsunsun did you try this? I'm curious about alcohol for the lipofuscin clearing and nothing else

@ChroncStresChris Re "calcium d-glucarate, caffeine + K2, CO2, TUDCA, taurine, and niacinamide", That's a good idea of yours to focus on strengthening your liver. I would first try plain milk or eggshell powder for the calcium. They're less likely to cause digestive difficulty. Caffeine and k2 should be helpful, as well as should co2. I think I would drop the tudca coz the taurine takes care of what it would do (it's actually what I did for myself: bought it but soon after starting stopped using it) I'd also start with trying to get the nutrients from actual food, eg caffeine from coffee/tea, k2 and b vitamins from liver, taurine from seafood... And finally I guess you're also planning to get quality protein from things like cheese and eggs (along with something sweet like coke or orange juice to prevent triggering stress hormones) Good luck

Non-static comb: an added point here that I just remembered is that I use a non-static comb, specifically a comb made out of bone. Plastic combs create static, and my view is that the static electricity could get picked up by the hair, like an antenna, and transferred into the hair follicles, and potentially do harm to the follicles. Uncontrolled static electricity was allegedly a huge health problem for early researchers in electricity (1700s--see The Invisible Rainbow, Arthur Firstenberg). Non-static combs are made out of bone, wood, horn, and maybe other things.

@Milk-Destroyer Well, not everyone notices effect from Pregnenolone, and not everyone notices (I think admits ) the effects from sounds Usually I use them like I mentioned, placing my thumb on the phone’s speakers and playing the sound, you can get a better effect by shaking a water bottle vigorously for 10 seconds and sticking the speaker to the bottle, then playing and drinking the water I’ve opened up another post, Medical Grade Carbon Dioxide. Try the water method and see if that has an effect https://www.patreon.com/chickfiles/posts/161848133?utm_campaign=postshare_creator

@gnc_destroyer I've used cascara sagrada occasionally as needed, if I foresee digestive trouble from a meal. It came with an extremely tiny measuring spoon (don't know the exact measurement, but less than 1/10 of a 1/4 teaspoon), and I would typically use about half that amount (very small amount). It is extremely bitter, and I found it most palatable in cranberry juice (very delicious). That worked well. However, I haven't used it for a while because I discovered that hops aid digestion in a similar manner, so now I just drink a beer with a meal that might otherwise be digestively tricky. Hops are an old herbal remedy for stimulating the production of digestive juices. For example, I used to struggle with pizza, and could not eat more than two slices without digestive trouble. If I drink a beer with the pizza, I can eat 4 slices without difficulty.